Change to CP Bonus - Population Control Algorithm

tonio21 wrote:

klaas wrote:

how's about what i suggested in the other thread: do a concurrent map reset.
start over, more level playing field. that would actually motivate dark players: having an actual chance.

+1


I agree , but peoples who are in top players ranking will not be happy if you just reset like that

i for one wouldn't mind. what would be lost? week and a half of cps. a small price for a brand new chance for a FUN war, i'd say

Positive vote on this.

klaas wrote:

tonio21 wrote:

klaas wrote:

how's about what i suggested in the other thread: do a concurrent map reset.
start over, more level playing field. that would actually motivate dark players: having an actual chance.

+1


I agree , but peoples who are in top players ranking will not be happy if you just reset like that

i for one wouldn't mind. what would be lost? week and a half of cps. a small price for a brand new chance for a FUN war, i'd say

I understand , and i dont say that for me
I remember the last war , it was really fun because it was very close .
Now the war havnt got taste , im for a fair war , at any cost .

I'm all for trying out this new algorithm.

As others have suggested, I would love a new map, too.

Another way of trying to balance the two sides could also be a map that favors the disadvantaged faction (currently the Dark Faction)...more bonus hexes for them...a "hidden path" viewable by them, but not Light Faction, that let's them bypass some hexes before entering the main map (at which point Light Faction would say "holy cr*p...how'd they get behind our frontline", at which point we would have to scramble to kick out the darkies and shore up the entrance from the hidden path)....just a few ideas....I'm sure others have better ones, too.

I like this idea and I would like to see it implemented as quickly as humanly possible.   

Couple of questions and thoughts in relation to before and after implementation,

1. Are the ratios of players who can hit higher level CP battles somewhat equal in the first place? (How many people does does Light have that are active and can do nightmares vs how many active people Dark has that can do nightmares)

2. I get where your coming from on the "not rewarding laziness", this is substantial, but it still feels a little weak as far as kicking people back into activity. Would there be a way to potentially increase the bonus over a longer period of time for a side that does not have more people? Obviously not without a trial period first as is, but say two weeks from implementation and there is still a sizable gap in Dark/Light players. Could there be a 2nd bonus applied on top in relation to player to faction ratios but with a longer recalculating time?

Metalsiagon wrote:

1. Are the ratios of players who can hit higher level CP battles somewhat equal in the first place? (How many people does does Light have that are active and can do nightmares vs how many active people Dark has that can do nightmares)

It doesn't really matter since we are calculating the average.

Metalsiagon wrote:

2. I get where your coming from on the "not rewarding laziness", this is substantial, but it still feels a little weak as far as kicking people back into activity. Would there be a way to potentially increase the bonus over a longer period of time for a side that does not have more people? Obviously not without a trial period first as is, but say two weeks from implementation and there is still a sizable gap in Dark/Light players. Could there be a 2nd bonus applied on top in relation to player to faction ratios but with a longer recalculating time?

The CP bonus will be calculated anew at the end of every day, so the activity will be calculated efficiently.

klaas wrote:

tonio21 wrote:

klaas wrote:

how's about what i suggested in the other thread: do a concurrent map reset.
start over, more level playing field. that would actually motivate dark players: having an actual chance.

+1


I agree , but peoples who are in top players ranking will not be happy if you just reset like that

i for one wouldn't mind. what would be lost? week and a half of cps. a small price for a brand new chance for a FUN war, i'd say

Exactly!
In Erevos 2nd war we wasted a full war cycle.   
What does it mean losing a couple of weeks now, in change of a true challenging war?   
Who is in top position now can easily retake them. But applying the new algorithm in an already determined war is not the best!

So, as Fyrr also suggested: let test the new system for a short while, then let restart with a new map full of fun and blood and steel!  

I agree with CP bonus for darkis but the big problem will be population. Just need new players to go to dark side ratio 10:1 for darkis. Because I believe CP bonus will not solve problem POPULATION WILL. You must control population better. CP bonus can be used in the short time because you can not expect that 10 strong darkis players fighte all time and all days.


You can make the game more interesting by adding new hexe bonus: like drop bonus for frags and maybe stone hexe bonus. More hexe bonus more guilds with bonus hexe and more new people will be must welcome and guilds will have to work and help new players to stay in game.

XTenenX wrote:

I agree with CP bonus for darkis but the big problem will be population. Just need new players to go to dark side ratio 10:1 for darkis. Because I believe CP bonus will not solve problem POPULATION WILL. You must control population better. CP bonus can be used in the short time because you can not expect that 10 strong darkis players fighte all time and all days.


You can make the game more interesting by adding new hexe bonus: like drop bonus for frags and maybe stone hexe bonus. More hexe bonus more guilds with bonus hexe and more new people will be must welcome and guilds will have to work and help new players to stay in game.

As stated above, the data show that the population ratio is not 10:1. It ranges from 1.15-1.30:1 and sometimes the Dark side has more active players in a day.

As for new registrations, the Dark side is receiving more new users.

All the rest...is just speculation and rumors with no evidence.

All the rest...is just speculation and rumors with no evidence.
[/quote]

People stay in game because of people they meet in game. I would have gone from this game but I remained because people like Ruach, Steinhund and letter Narmis and much more other people in my guild and in fraction.

More bonus hexe more you need resorses and more you need to fight and the game becomes much more interesting.

It will be great to have some reward for guilds. Reward like medals or cups or resorses for guilds ranking place every week or month.

Acitviti of people in game that you must raise. If you raise activiti more new people will stay in game.

XTenenX wrote:

All the rest...is just speculation and rumors with no evidence.

People stay in game because of people they meet in game. I would have gone from this game but I remained because people like Ruach, Steinhund and letter Narmis and much more other people in my guild and in fraction.

[/quote]

This is true to an extent, but finding a new algorithm to compensate for population differences seems to be more important. Most of the dark faction players I know that have stopped playing is because they found the game meaningless because we are outnumbered, and nothing was being done about it.
It's very frustrating battling as often as you can and getting nothing for it. I am excited to see how this new cp bonus will work. Perhaps it will be effective and we will get some of our players back.

So when exactly does this take effect? And becomes visible in victory screen or something..? :p

A daily bonus might help , i think ; though it could be too much since we get res already.
How about for getting 1k CP everyday , you get a reward? After that 1k , nothing til the next day

Fyrr wrote:

So when exactly does this take effect? And becomes visible in victory screen or something..? :p

It has already taken effect.

The data should become visible on Monday or Tuesday when the relevant window is ready.

? i can't say i've seen effect (flagdrop on worldmap, hex stats or gloabal stats). a suicide run gives me exactly 160 cps. are you sure the algorithm is working properly?

klaas wrote:

?  i can't say i've seen effect (flagdrop on worldmap, hex stats or gloabal stats). a suicide run gives me exactly 160 cps. are you sure the algorithm is working properly?

The algorithm is working just fine. However, CP caps were still limiting the CP generation, when they shouldn't when calculating the CP bonus.

We will do a patch today to resolve this issue.

Also, new CP caps are as follows:

Insane: From 130 changed to 200

Suicide: No CP cap

The rest remain as they are. We haven't changed PvP as we want to do several changes there.

FYI the CP Bonus went to the Dark Side as follows:

CP Bonus

Saturday: 1.21

Sunday: 1.14

Monday (Today): 1.10

We will do a patch today to resolve this issue.

Also, new CP caps are as follows:

Insane: From 130 changed to 200

Suicide: No CP cap

But for how long you are going to give CP bonus? OK darkis have less players then light side. But if you control CP we are all going to circle. Light push 1 day darkis second day get CP bonus and they push back. That's why I wrote before CP bonus can be used only for short time. In long time why would people ever fight when tomorrow all is going to be same and you are controling all the game.

You must fix populaction problem. Lot more people push to dark side. I am for CP bonus If there is a big difference between factions but CP bonus does not solve a problem.

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:

?  i can't say i've seen effect (flagdrop on worldmap, hex stats or gloabal stats). a suicide run gives me exactly 160 cps. are you sure the algorithm is working properly?

The algorithm is working just fine. However, CP caps were still limiting the CP generation, when they shouldn't when calculating the CP bonus.

We will do a patch today to resolve this issue.

Also, new CP caps are as follows:

Insane: From 130 changed to 200

Suicide: No CP cap

The rest remain as they are. We haven't changed PvP as we want to do several changes there.

yay for patch !
one question though: why not alter the cap on NM and coops as well? a cap change for sui and insane only seems to exclude a significant % of a faction's effort..

XTenenX wrote:

But for how long you are going to give CP bonus? OK darkis have less players then light side. But if you control CP we are all going to circle. Light push 1 day darkis second day get CP bonus and they push back. That's why I wrote before CP bonus can be used only for short time. In long time why would people ever fight when tomorrow all is going to be same and you are controling all the game.

You must fix populaction problem. Lot more people push to dark side. I am for CP bonus If there is a big difference between factions but CP bonus does not solve a problem.

O_o this has been discussed in extenso before. yes, of course the population imbalance is the root of the problem, but that isn't easily solved. via a CP bonus alteration we can at least dampen the ffect somewhat. the new algorithm takes faction popualtioninto account, so, once the populations are closer in size, it won't kick in.

XTenenX wrote:

We will do a patch today to resolve this issue.

Also, new CP caps are as follows:

Insane: From 130 changed to 200

Suicide: No CP cap

But for how long you are going to give CP bonus? OK darkis have less players then light side. But if you control CP we are all going to circle. Light push 1 day darkis second day get CP bonus and they push back. That's why I wrote before CP bonus can be used only for short time. In long time why would people ever fight when tomorrow all is going to be same and you are controling all the game.

You must fix populaction problem. Lot more people push to dark side. I am for CP bonus If there is a big difference between factions but CP bonus does not solve a problem.

The CP bonus is not given as a charity to the side which has generated less CP than the other side. It is only given to the side which is underpopulated and it is only triggered after a specific population ratio is reached.

It has several fail safes to make sure that the underpopulated side will receive an X CP bonus depending on its "dedication" in battles, as I have explained above and in another thread.

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:

?  i can't say i've seen effect (flagdrop on worldmap, hex stats or gloabal stats). a suicide run gives me exactly 160 cps. are you sure the algorithm is working properly?

The algorithm is working just fine. However, CP caps were still limiting the CP generation, when they shouldn't when calculating the CP bonus.

We will do a patch today to resolve this issue.

Also, new CP caps are as follows:

Insane: From 130 changed to 200

Suicide: No CP cap

The rest remain as they are. We haven't changed PvP as we want to do several changes there.

yay for patch !
one question though: why not alter the cap on NM and coops as well? a cap change for sui and insane only seems to preclude a significant % of a faction's effort..

COOPs because they are simply..way too easy.

NMs, because simply they are easy, yet a little bit more difficult than COOPs.

RuneSlayer wrote:

COOPs because they are simply..way too easy.

NMs, because simply they are easy, yet a little bit more difficult than COOPs.

true, they are easy, but with a cap raise on sui and insane only, the 'burden' lies mostly on a small group of players. Also, newer players don't cap coops anyways.
a significant portion of the battles fought are coops. it seems..weird to no extend a cap raise to that as well. with this proposed system, only a portion of the effort of a portion of the population benefits ?

Rune, I believe you made it seem that all CP earning battles would have this bonus, including coops:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Taking into consideration all the above, and assuming that the Dark Side had a 23% CP bonus today, the total CP for today would have been:

Light: 46867
Dark: 30956 instead of 25168

As you can see, the Light Side STILL generates more CP but it also has MORE victories than the Dark Side because it is playing more battles.

IF the Dark side was doing more battles, similar to the amount of battles the Light side is doing, the CP bonus would be even bigger and with the extra CP and the bigger bonus, it could well surpass the Light side in CP.

Your post did not distinguish between Normal, Nightmare, Insane, Suicide, Coop, or PvP....just total CPs...which I believe was safe to assume included some of the battles you have not changed.

ysosad wrote:

Rune, I believe you made it seem that all CP earning battles would have this bonus, including coops:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Taking into consideration all the above, and assuming that the Dark Side had a 23% CP bonus today, the total CP for today would have been:

Light: 46867
Dark: 30956 instead of 25168

As you can see, the Light Side STILL generates more CP but it also has MORE victories than the Dark Side because it is playing more battles.

IF the Dark side was doing more battles, similar to the amount of battles the Light side is doing, the CP bonus would be even bigger and with the extra CP and the bigger bonus, it could well surpass the Light side in CP.

Your post did not distinguish between Normal, Nightmare, Insane, Suicide, Coop, or PvP....just total CPs...which I believe was safe to assume included some of the battles you have not changed.

That is correct. I do not see the connection between what you are saying and what I mentioned in the post.

The raised CP caps per difficulty are valid for both sides.

The CP bonus is ONLY given to the underpopulated side and it IS possible that the total CP earned from a battle will go over the CP cap in any difficulty.

Btw...Congrats to the Dark Side. It is doing very well in CP generation. The raised caps and the fix in the CP caps, which is scheduled for today should show how good it is going.

Only yesterday:

Light: 129.000 base CP with 305 active players (13,13 victories/player)
Dark: 127.000 base CP with 274 active players (11,72 victories/player)

RuneSlayer wrote:

ysosad wrote:

Rune, I believe you made it seem that all CP earning battles would have this bonus, including coops:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Taking into consideration all the above, and assuming that the Dark Side had a 23% CP bonus today, the total CP for today would have been:

Light: 46867
Dark: 30956 instead of 25168

As you can see, the Light Side STILL generates more CP but it also has MORE victories than the Dark Side because it is playing more battles.

IF the Dark side was doing more battles, similar to the amount of battles the Light side is doing, the CP bonus would be even bigger and with the extra CP and the bigger bonus, it could well surpass the Light side in CP.

Your post did not distinguish between Normal, Nightmare, Insane, Suicide, Coop, or PvP....just total CPs...which I believe was safe to assume included some of the battles you have not changed.

That is correct. I do not see the connection between what you are saying and what I mentioned in the post.

The raised CP caps per difficulty are valid for both sides.

The CP bonus is ONLY given to the underpopulated side and it IS possible that the total CP earned from a battle will go over the CP cap in any difficulty.

Btw...Congrats to the Dark Side. It is doing very well in CP generation. The raised caps and the fix in the CP caps, which is scheduled for today should show how good it is going.

Only yesterday:

Light: 129.000 base CP with 305 active players (13,13 victories/player)
Dark: 127.000 base CP with 274 active players (11,72 victories/player)

Got it, these two changes are independent of one another.