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Quote :

I run x4 100% gl units in PvE this gives me the highest Cps per battle

The CP you gain from battles are AP-based. (The rewards you gain are type based.)
Whether you have 5 units fully equipped with GL or 10 units in commons doesnt matter, you get same cp for same ap.

AP limitation from barracks is the biggest stopper no matter how you turn it. Most ppl want to have as many non light units they can bring - hi, cav, arti (as these yield better rewards and are more powerful). You run out of ap very fast, much faster than out of future GS. It surprises me that people want full godlike units in pve, as i consider that a waste of xp-gaining options (more units = more lvling) and waste of rewards per battle.

Almost all players that lose to say its just because of gls, even though i have arranged some pvps with no gls and then they have to find excuses to say why the other side won, for example your unit is 3 level higher or they applied bad strategy.

I have used a cavalry with caps and lost to a bunch of human light infantry around lvl 5, ( http://clip2net.com/s/5GMUeq ) Sad.... but here is an example gls dont "ALWAYS" give you the victory.

And besides whats use of lvling up after lvl 9 other then +3 stats, so i kinda like the equipment lvl requirement.

Question to dev- i have forged weapons (unlocks special units) but not platemail armour... do i still obtain mercs?

Goodluck!

Scaren wrote:

Wow I didn't expect so many new players to not like this. A few months ago the devs had talked about implementing this. I don't think that one person complained about it at the time. Either way I don't think I will care that much about the gear part. I'm worried about the pvp part. So I agree with Kuba and Nathor it will become difficult to find a pvp. Waiting in queue no longer seems to be an option. If there were a much larger number of players and a good amount of them wanted to pvp then this would work. But not a lot of people pvp and that is a problem. I want to wait and see how the tiers turn out though. And for the noob facing a veteran every single noob could have beat me if they had reared my LI. Either they flank my LI which doesn't make him flee considering yes he is more powerful than their troops but if they rear it will usually flee. Or they flank/rear my LIA which results in my LIA dying but by then my two LI wins and is attacking the rest of their troops.

Of course new players don't like this. If you look at the responses, the only people who approve are the ones who are unaffected.

Yeah, it is easy to say you approve because the gear that you have can be equipped. You don't say "hey, give me a dollar and I will give you a pound of apples" and then once the transaction is completed say "here are your oranges".

RuneSlayer wrote:

Jen Bekman wrote:

If everybody likes what you are doing, you're doing it wrong.

I thought the objective in business was happy consumers....

Bblazer wrote:

Question to dev- i have forged weapons (unlocks special units) but not platemail armour... do i still obtain mercs?

You are referring to Special Units.

Mercenary units can be recruited by Guild members who own the relevant Regions with the Merc
Units indicated.

However, they will be able to be purchased via Gems as well, though the Guilds will have some extra advantages when they are recruiting them from their Regions.

Aella wrote:

I thought the objective in business was happy consumers....

That is very correct. However, you cannot please everybody. Trying to do so, you can only ruin your product and in the end lose all interest in your product.

Aella, I would suggest that you first see the changes, play the game with them, evaluate the new situation and then with an open mind express your thoughts. I will be the first to comment on them.

Aella i was somewhat mad like you when before they buffed DL, we had half Hp on all units, but there is no need to over do it, we just made a post that we need a buff and in no time we got it.

(@runeslayer) Ah yes i meant special units... but regardless is one research enough to obtain them?

Bblazer wrote:

Ah yes i meant special units... but regardless is one research enough to obtain them?

You need the relevant Weapon and Armor tech to unlock a special unit.

Bblazer wrote:

Aella i was somewhat mad like you when before they buffed DL, we had half Hp on all units, but there is no need to over do it, we just made a post that we need a buff and in no time we got it.

(@runeslayer) Ah yes i meant special units... but regardless is one research enough to obtain them?

This isn't about something being buffed or nerfed. It is about selling me a product and then not letting me equip it. As Slawenm pointed out to me, the only people we see approving of these changes are in the top ranks and will be able to equip all of their gear despite the change.

What it does is establish an elite and a serfdom mentality where the players who are rewarded are the ones on top and the ones on the bottom won't be able to even the playing field. If people want to pay for that ability, let them. But don't sell them something and then say they can't equip it suddenly without any notice.

If I knew this was going to happen, I wouldn't have purchased my 15k gems. And I certainly won't be going through with my planned purchase for the next 15k to be able to help my guild mates.

I have the right to vote with my wallet. I am just pointing out that the majority of the people who approve of this are not going to be affected by it or lose anything while those who have spent money on equipment that can not be equipped anymore will be alienated and choose to stop paying to play- and they have that right.

I have also spend about 7.5k but when u buy gold chest u are also buying epics, having up to 17 % exp bonous on them, when i was i noob i didnt use gls because before patch they would cost to repair about 6500.

I used epics exp with bonous and bonus and purchased that 20% exp buff to units and heroes for 10 days to get higher levels.

And then i saw i was far on research so i upgraded my warehouse and bought some resource except gold (instead of getting gold which costs more gems i buy most demanded resource which is atm iron and sell 1k for like 1400, 1-saving gems 2-getting more gold then buying it directly ) and i made sure to upgrade warehouse first as when u buy resource for 85 gems it fills 35% of your warehouse ... higher warehouse = more resource per 85 gems.

until then i started purchasing more gold chest when i had lvl 6-9 units and im good atm.

So now i told you how i got up to better ranks? you own me gems now (jk)  

Bblazer wrote:

I have also spend about 7.5k but when u buy gold chest u are also buying epics, having up to 17 % exp bonous on them, when i was i noob i didnt use gls because before patch they would cost to repair about 6500.

I used epics exp with bonous and bonus and purchased that 20% exp buff to units and heroes for 10 days to get higher levels.

And then i saw i was far on research so i upgraded my warehouse and bought some resource except gold (instead of getting gold which costs more gems i buy most demanded resource which is atm iron and sell 1k for like 1400, 1-saving gems 2-getting more gold then buying it directly ) and i made sure to upgrade warehouse first as when u buy resource for 85 gems it fills 35% of your warehouse ... higher warehouse = more resource per 85 gems.

until then i started purchasing more gold chest when i had lvl 6-9 units and im good atm.

So now i told you how i got up to better ranks? you own me gems now (jk)  

I don't understand all the "I can't afford to repair my gear" nonsense. I have epics and godlikes. I finish quests and earn enough resources to keep up with repairs, upgrade buildings and give away 20k+ gold to my guild mates. If I can do it, people who have more experience than me should be able to.

Anyone who buys gold chests who does not have level 8 units yet will be getting ripped off. Same with boost packs. It is bait and switch. They buy the product and then find out they won't be able to equip it yet.

I still haven't seen anyone on this board who will lose the ability to equip their gear coming forward and saying it is a good thing and they like it. Only people who are unaffected are approving of it. And of course they are. It keeps them on top.

Thats because there are very few that are significantly affected - which btw is a hint to solid overall ballancing. As pointed out above, having the ap to use epic/gl is a luxury coming at high cost - neglecting heavier units or heroes for example. You are the only person i have heard of to focus on nm at barracks 14. I have done like 20 NM´s at b14 and threw the idea away seeing my HI with 20+ mins of heal all the time. Getting much more rewards and cp with coops per equal time span too. Even now with barracks lvl 17 using any epics is difficult if you want a tailored army and not just LI/LIA/Ranged.

My heroes needs to gain a lot of level (and hard ones, not the first ones) to be able to equip my best gear, so I'm affected by this. I still think it's a good idea.

It's not like the first levels are hard to gain or anything. The first are a cakewalk honestly.

Also all this non-sense talk about older players... the most powerful players right now aren't the oldest ones. The most powerful are the one that xp the most by battling some are from the beta, some are from later noob waves. There's actually plenty of us that came in the wave just before yours, not that long ago.

There's plenty of players who right now are big nobody from a fighting power pov (no offense) despite being in the earlier members of the beta.

Even among those you called older players, some of us came way later than veterans. Still by playing a lot you can catch up. Items help but it's a common misconception they are enough. Without a lot of battle they are useless, even before update.

You just have a choice Aella : either you go earn those xps and you will catch up faster than you think. Or you don't wanna and that's fine too.

Now on topic : there's so much in this update... better wait and see. Sounds very very promising though. And... I'm QQing just thinking about the xp needed for level 20. :p

Aella wrote:

What it does is establish an elite and a serfdom mentality where the players who are rewarded are the ones on top and the ones on the bottom won't be able to even the playing field. If people want to pay for that ability, let them. But don't sell them something and then say they can't equip it suddenly without any notice.

That is totally wrong Aella. What it does is establish a smooth gameplay progression and a more balanced gameplay environment which does not depend solely on items. It does NOT hinder players to equip items to their units. Also, you keep on saying that these changes affect only new players... This is completely wrong. GS of items depends on the stat bonuses. Therefore even players with 10-13 level units will have to change their gear due to the upcoming changes. There is NO "Pay to Play" here....

In regards to the players who have purchased items via the Shop, nobody is preventing them from using these items. They may have to readjust their gear, but that will not hinder their game progression or satisfaction, as this is something that will apply to all the players in Battle Conquest.

Also, this is a change that we have informed the community about 1-2 months ago.

Aella wrote:

I have the right to vote with my wallet. I am just pointing out that the majority of the people who approve of this are not going to be affected by it or lose anything while those who have spent money on equipment that can not be equipped anymore will be alienated and choose to stop paying to play- and they have that right.

How exactly will they be alienated? As for the the right to vote with your wallet, nobody said the opposite.

Nethack wrote:

My heroes needs to gain a lot of level (and hard ones, not the first ones) to be able to equip my best gear, so I'm affected by this. I still think it's a good idea.

It's not like the first levels are hard to gain or anything. The first are a cakewalk honestly.

Also all this non-sense talk about older players... the most powerful players right now aren't the oldest ones. The most powerful are the one that xp the most by battling some are from the beta, some are from later noob waves. There's actually plenty of us that came in the wave just before yours, not that long ago.

There's plenty of players who right now are big nobody from a fighting power pov (no offense) despite being in the earlier members of the beta.

Even among those you called older players, some of us came way later than veterans. Still by playing a lot you can catch up. Items help but it's a common misconception they are enough. Without a lot of battle they are useless, even before update.

You just have a choice Aella : either you go earn those xps and you will catch up faster than you think. Or you don't wanna and that's fine too.

Now on topic : there's so much in this update... better wait and see. Sounds very very promising though. And... I'm QQing just thinking about the xp needed for level 20. :p

You are trying to play yourself off as unaffected when you have 126k CP and 12k fame? Who are you kidding?

Did anyone else take time to look at the math on this either? The inability to equip my epics, which I paid money for will therefore reduce my AP and thus reduce the CP that I earn in battle. Now, anyone who is currently in the top guild would love this because it hampers my ability to hurt them in Guild Wars. Less CP per attack would mean less IP and the current elite are able to ward off any attempts taken at their regions by newer guilds.

Once again, the changes punish the middle level players and reward the elite, who will retain all of the advantages of their gear. Someone who is ranked in the top 100 in the game saying that he won't be able to equip his BEST godlike, but is likely able to gain 99 CP per hit isn't making a statement that someone who is unaffected is approving of this.

I didn't just invest money in this game but I invested time and I do co-op and solo missions to not only level up my armies and heroes but to help in the fight against dark and to earn resources that I can give to guild mates to help them grow. Now suddenly my 70 CP is going to be reduced to under 40 because I won't be able to wear my gear.

Yet those of you on the top who are all nodding your heads and saying that you love these changes won't lose a single CP.

Then on top of that, we are going to be fighting harder enemies, with less benefit from gear, which will result in longer heal times. Longer heal times will result in more downtime, which will affect our economies and reduce the amount of resources we gain from our armies.

This is not simply an issue of not being able to equip gear but all of the ramifications that result from it and how it will stack everything in the favor of the elite few and punish anyone else.

Aella, I like your argument about the interrelation between AP, GS, CP and IP. (Not being ironic here...)

I want to take a look at the mechanics and I will return with comments.

It does not matter what gear you use. Same ap give same cp/ip whether you get it with commons and more units or godlikes and less units.

I feel like this is the argument like - is 1 kilogram of iron heavier than 1 kilogram of feathers.

Tibr wrote:

It does not matter what gear you use. Same ap give same cp/ip whether you get it with commons and more units or godlikes and less units.

That's what I wanted to verify. I will return with comments about it and if there is truly any element of unfairness there, we will certainly make the necessary adjustments.

However, we do not intend to punish veteran players who have very high level units and have invested way too much time on BC by making everything even. A high level player IS a high level player and therefore receives gameplay rewards accordingly.

RuneSlayer wrote:

However, we do not intend to punish veteran players who have very high level units and have invested way too much time on BC by making everything even. A high level player IS a high level player and therefore receives gameplay rewards accordingly.

I'm not asking to make it even. I will use myself as an example. I have capped out, pretty much. I have a level 14 barracks and with my current gear, I can use two armies that are just under my max AP. I get 58-70 CP per attack.

Veteran players get 99 CP per attack.

The key reason I don't like these changes is because veterans will keep hitting for 99 CP and 9.9 IP but the 70 CP I get will diminish, my heal time will increase and I will be at a greater disadvantage. I feel that players like Slawemn and me who are right in the middle (I'm just over 4k fame) basically get screwed over by these changes while the elite retain their advantages and very brand new players have little reason to purchase boost packs or chests.

This is what I've been trying to say the whole time. I'm just glad that RuneSlayer is hearing me out now.

Aella wrote:

The key reason I don't like these changes is because veterans will keep hitting for 99 CP and 9.9 IP but the 70 CP I get will diminish, my heal time will increase and I will be at a greater disadvantage. I feel that players like Slawemn and me who are right in the middle (I'm just over 4k fame) basically get screwed over by these changes while the elite retain their advantages and very brand new players have little reason to purchase boost packs or chests.

i) The difficulty in battles is valid for all players, for both new and old.

ii) The interrelation between AP and CP is something that I want to verify. If there is none, then there is no problem. If there is, then it has to be readjusted.

Aella wrote:

I'm just glad that RuneSlayer is hearing me out now.

RuneSlayer is always listening. He stops listening when there are no valid arguments or when a discussion becomes a flaming war.

Lol, listening to you talk about yourself in the third person is funny.

Thanks for looking into my concerns.

RuneSlayer wrote:

ii) The interrelation between AP and CP is something that I want to verify. If there is none, then there is no problem. If there is, then it has to be readjusted.

There is interrealiton between AP and CP.

Is it possible to make change that AP will be depends on naked units ap plus their experience?

So I will not be able to actually have a Spider Swarm in my army?  

Also, if I understand you correctly. I will not be able to use my GL, Epic, Uncommon, Uncommon, Hero set-up with my level 5 archer?

But the biggest problem I see here is I will not be able to get my stats up to take care of these new level 20 NPCs. They will literally demolish my army in Co-op if I play with people who bring cav and artillery to the fight. (Because I always get the maxed level NPCs coming toward me and they get the easy low levels :/). Will this change not also effect how much XP I can obtain? Right now I am making about 100 xp roughly per unit a round with a 4 archer/3 HI set-up. Right now it will be 30 rounds until my next level up if it stays constant xp wise. If my XP rate is reduced I must do more rounds and more healing (due to every NPC of higher level almost wasting my army).

Hmm, let me try to break down what Aella is trying to say though.

Newbies = Less AP, less XP, less rewards and less CPs. (also inability to use GL's until they hit 5-6 level).
Oldies = Slightly less AP (not full GL equipped armies), slightly less XP, slightly less rewards and slightly less CPs.

So unless these new stats make Epics, Rares, etc, give the same XP ratios of how the GLs are doing right now. Newbies are effectively lowered in how fast they can obtain the xp to level up in the first place.



Also, one note about the new units. How will units recruited by the guilds work on battle? Will they attack both us and the enemy or just the enemy?

Aella, in all your arguments (not gonna quote them all), you fail to realise, before your time :

- Old players gained 5 CP per battle max at one time. Now the max is 99 CP... huge difference ! (ask around).

- Units lost xp on death. And a lot of it. Pvpers especially kept losing experience.

- For a period of tiem, repairing cost was through the roof. Thousands gold to repair an item... could be nearly 10k for a good GL as repair cost.

Now you don't loose xp anymore, you can earn 20x CP and the repair cost is just so freaking easy.

True is, it has never been so easy for the new players to catch up (me included). You thinking older players had it easier basically show you have no clue how it was before.

And yeah, even with my amount of fame and CP i'm affected by this. I still have some somewhat low level units... but since you don't believe it... whatever.

Nethack wrote:

Now you don't loose xp anymore, you can earn 20x CP and the repair cost is just so freaking easy.

True is, it has never been so easy for the new players to catch up (me included). You thinking older players had it easier basically show you have no clue how it was before.

But the experienced players get 20 times the CP now and don't lose exp for losses either.

How is handicapping the newer players fair? We shouldn't be punished because you feel we have it easier than you did.

It would be much more fair to release a feature that only the higher level players can access than to handicap the newer players. Then the veterans get a benefit for their loyalty and the new players have something to aspire to.