Battle conquest is officially a Pay To WIN (P2W) Game

Thank you for the little time I enjoyed the game but I feel swindled by the current system of pay to win, the only game I payed real money was a free to play game with a free paypal donation button that was worth a lot more hours of gameplay without monotony and frustrations...

bye bye

any more thoughts about that?

I havent seen any changes lately which mmight pushing this game into p2w game.

From what I've seen, the devs have addressed P2W concerns that people brought up. If they wrote cohesive and informed posts explaining why something was bad, it was listened to for the most part.

It might help to explain why you think its P2W. You might actually affect change.

K, I'm addressing my toughts:

1)repairing system is really frustrating, it takes a huge gold amount to repair items, and the increased frequency on how these item are being repaired is really too high (too low durability and uncommon banners going for a crazy amount of golds in repairs on very low max durability

2)combat system is always the same "pasta col pomodoro", everything you see in game are always armies fighting other armies and progresses are made by playing like a "korean grinding style", all you have to do for your faction is kill kill, earn CP, farm gold, repair, kill kill...

3)You have to pay money to have a fair fight in pvp and win for completing quests, please don't tell me you never wanted to address this game in an item dependant game, look at what  you implemented there, godlike items that caps everything and give unfair advantage, no matter how someone can play forever this game, no one can have a fair pvp match without godlikes...so please, don't scam gamers lieing about your "Freemium" point of view, we are not stupid...

And personally, I don't care if the developers don't answer to this discussion, I only care that everyone knows what kind of scam they are playing into.

Pay to Win games are made to provide large profits to the devs and companies, not for the pure purpose of paying the server costs and the efforts...

Thank you for your comments Souless.

We always listen and respect everyone's comments. If not anything else, we have proved that many times. Also we have proven that we are always ready to make changes when the community believes that something needs to be changed. As we said on Day 1 of this game, this is a voyage that we want to do with the community beside us...this is not a one man's (development team's) game...

Souless wrote:

1)repairing system is really frustrating, it takes a huge gold amount to repair items, and the increased frequency on how these item are being repaired is really too high (too low durability and uncommon banners going for a crazy amount of golds in repairs on very low max durability

Allow me to answer with a post. Sometimes frustration rushes us into conclusions... http://www.battleconforum.com/t622-who-wants-more-gold Also, check today's update.

Souless wrote:

2)combat system is always the same "pasta col pomodoro", everything you see in game are always armies fighting other armies and progresses are made by playing like a "korean grinding style", all you have to do for your faction is kill kill, earn CP, farm gold, repair, kill kill...

Although we plan to add more features to the game, we don't see what this point has to do with your P2W accusation. If nothing else, we've been adding new features all the time...so I guess again it is your frustration talking... Also, you may want to look at this post to see what is coming.... http://www.battleconforum.com/t600-bc-todo-list We do not consider our game a Korean grinding game...

Souless wrote:

3)You have to pay money to have a fair fight in pvp and win for completing quests, please don't tell me you never wanted to address this game in an item dependant game, look at what you implemented there, godlike items that caps everything and give unfair advantage, no matter how someone can play forever this game, no one can have a fair pvp match without godlikes...so please, don't scam gamers lieing about your "Freemium" point of view, we are not stupid...

Yes, that is exactly what we will tell you. Our game is not item oriented... Perhaps again you need to read another post... http://www.battleconforum.com/t625-food-for-thought-and-brainstorming .. As for someone playing in PvP without Godlines, you will find several players who have won without Godlikes. Also, you need to consider the fact that there is a matchmaking process which takes into consideration AP, so a heavily geared army will never play against a "newbie" army. Is our system perfect? No....Is there any perfect system? Again no... At least we are trying to correct imbalances through listening to our community.
P2W games are games which offer premiums that CANNOT be obtained by ANY means by playing the game and help the users WIN the game... All the items offered in BC can be obtained by playing the game... and I will personally give you 350k GEMS if you can WIN the game by buying all premiums in this game...

Souless wrote:

I only care that everyone knows what kind of scam they are playing into.

Pay to Win games are made to provide large profits to the devs and companies, not for the pure purpose of paying the server costs and the efforts...

You are....very confused...

Souless two days ago you wrote on global chat that you are happy that this game is not p2w. What has changed during those days?

Souless wrote:

1)repairing system is really frustrating, it takes a huge gold amount to repair items, and the increased frequency on how these item are being repaired is really too high (too low durability and uncommon banners going for a crazy amount of golds in repairs on very low max durability

I dont see any signs p2w in this, besides repair system has been already changed.

Souless wrote:

2)combat system is always the same "pasta col pomodoro", everything you see in game are always armies fighting other armies and progresses are made by playing like a "korean grinding style", all you have to do for your faction is kill kill, earn CP, farm gold, repair, kill kill...

I really dont know what to say. This is game, fighting game, so what do you expect? If you have any ideas just write on forum it isnt hard.

Souless wrote:

3)You have to pay money to have a fair fight in pvp and win for completing quests, please don't tell me you never wanted to address this game in an item dependant game, look at what  you implemented there, godlike items that caps everything and give unfair advantage, no matter how someone can play forever this game, no one can have a fair pvp match without godlikes...so please, don't scam gamers lieing about your "Freemium" point of view, we are not stupid...

I agree that GL items are overpowered, but they are less overpowered that some time ago (i was whining about this on forum before), and now devs invited players to find the best solution. For pvp you can always find opponent who will not use gl items just use global chat. I disagree with you that you have to pay to be good in PVP. I defeated Vena and his superior 2HI 1LI army before i buy crystals, after i reach cav i stopped to expanding selling all resources to buying all gl frags/item from market to build army. So you dont have to pay to win in PVP. Premium boxes dosent give anythink what can be found in a game.

I saw many games p2w and this one is not one of them.

Even if I can't change my mind about BC being a P2W game I can't say that I don't like this game, infact I've expressed my toughts because the current combat system has been changed to make godlikes less important. But in my opinion the game became boring because of the poor choices any player currently has and I really hope they solve this issue including more content like the ones on the ToDo list (survival, destroy/defend object and so on...) as you can see from my replies here my discussion is not purely destructive or a huge complain but something to keep the demon of the P2W mentality at bay

There is a thin difference between tollerated stuff and P2W, however this is the answer of your question Kuba

If those are the criteria for pay to win then almost every game in existence is pay to win. This really stretches..........one's imagination. I'll come out and say I've paid and bought gems, I most certainly don't feel like I'm now "winning". Either I'm doing something wrong or it isn't quite so easy as Pay=Win.

irishimc wrote:

If those are the criteria for pay to win then almost every game in existence is pay to win.  This really stretches..........one's imagination.  I'll come out and say I've paid and bought gems, I most certainly don't feel like I'm now "winning".  Either I'm doing something wrong or it isn't quite so easy as Pay=Win.

You sir are a genius but in all seriousness Irish you are right that chart is pretty much every online game Souless I have also bought gems and it hasn't boosted me all that much it's just a little extra help I think you are getting to angry about this one p2w thing. This game has definitely made the equation pay=win almost impossible unless you spend a lot of money and I mean a lot of money to get that many gold chests.

I dont think Soulless is posting completely without basis. He just didnt explain why he felt that way.

I just trust that the devs are willing to work on imbalances that might make this game P2W. I do not think they intend to allow any P2W elements in the game.


The item balancing issue I see is two-fold:

• For each tier of rarity you go up, there is a doubling of unit stats. This exponential growth due to items causes imbalances. That is being worked on with the item limitations.
  
• The droprate for top tier rarity items (godlikes) is extremely low. To practically obtain them does take a rather large grind. I dont have droprate info to back this up with numbers. I know there is more content in the works and rewards are needed for that content.

All that said, F2P games are all about balancing 3 things: Time, Money, Skill. If it is completely impractical for a free player to obtain the best gear and the best gear provides 4-8 times more stats than what can be practically obtained freely, I can see why some people will claim there are P2W elements to this game.

this matter is very general
then let me ask you questions, souless

• Can you list how much browsing based games that have no p2w elements?
  
• Do non cash players can win those games?
  
• Do you know reasons most of devs apply pay features?
  
• Do you know how much cost to make & maintenance game like this?
  
• More important, do you ever taste live like programmer, what their purpose to make program/game/software?
  

basically you want to remove p2w elements on BC, guess you want BC closed and causing we all cant play BC anymore.

Well I guess most of beta testers or users wont notice that in economy/business term anyway.
They dont care devs emself except the game.

Firstly I should point out that I'm also one of those people who have bought gems but I didn't buy them because I thought I needed an edge, I bought them because I enjoy the game and I wanted to contribute to its development. Did I gain an edge by buying gems? Yes, I guess I did to a certain extent in that I could temporarily boost production and gain a bit in the fame rankings and, yes, I could buy some more repair slots so I can recycle gear more quickly but I fail to see how this is something that is necessary to 'win' the game. In fact I could go further and ask how does a player 'win' in this game anyway? I think perhaps this cuts to the heart of the matter. I'm not personally bothered whether I win or lose PvP battles. I understand there are some out there for whom winning these battles is everything and, for those people, I guess this game does have P2W elements due to the rarity of Godlike items. I've been playing this game for 2 or 3 months now and I've only obtained enough GLs to craft a single LI banner and I don't have any frags with which to reforge it, so I'm guessing I'll never be able have full GLs and be able to maintain them unless I buy some with gems. Does this make the game a P2W? Maybe, but I consider myself a winner purely because I've found a game that I enjoy playing so much.

Lets try to put Godlike droprates into perspective -- here is a question to ask people: Out of 10k CP, how many godlike fragments have you found in drops? Do not count AH bought fragments.

If you dont have 10k CP, or cannot remember that far back, try to tell us how much CP you've earned between any two Godlike fragments.

Also important - tell us what type of games do you run? PvP? Co-ops? Nightmares?


---
I have earned a total of 12 epic fragments and 3 Godlike fragments in the last 10k CP. The CP breakdown is probably about 20% PvP, 30% Nightmare and 50% co-ops. Most of my PvP was low AP (<600) matches several patches ago. Nightmares are responsible for 2 of my godlike frag drops.

I have not used +droprate% items in my primary army and I use maybe +20-25% droprate items in my 2ndary army.

Granted a lot of patches have been pushed live and that 10k was earned over a rather long time.

I may be unlucky.. or maybe we'll see a pattern. Anyone else care to share their drop numbers?

Yea, I agree the game has fun in it, but at its core it is set in a competitive environment. Balance of things like Godlike access is important.

Gorlak wrote:

I guess this game does have P2W elements due to the rarity of Godlike items.  I've been playing this game for 2 or 3 months now and I've only obtained enough GLs to craft a single LI banner and I don't have any frags with which to reforge it, so I'm guessing I'll never be able have full GLs and be able to maintain them unless I buy some with gems.  Does this make the game a P2W?  Maybe, but I consider myself a winner purely because I've found a game that I enjoy playing so much.  

I noticed you have about 50k CP. That is a pretty solid amount. Are you saying youve only earned 3 godlikes fragments in that time?


Hmm.. and maybe this question would be directed at Runeslayer. Are darkie leaderboard CP numbers including the boost they get for the population differential?

Hegorn wrote:

I noticed you have about 50k CP. That is a pretty solid amount. Are you saying youve only earned 3 godlikes fragments in that time?

I joined just before CPs were linked to AP (I like to think my post in the forum on the topic helped bring about the change) so most of my CPs were earned under the new system.  I have a total of 36% in drop rate items acquired over the time I've been playing and use about half of them in each army.  My drops have been a total of 11 epic frags and 8 GL frags acquired during my 50K CPs (some of which include the dark boost I assume), but since the frags are split over the various item categories, I can only make 2 epic and 1 GL items to date.

Edit: Most of my battles are done on NM with the remainder being coop and a very few PvP

Souless wrote:

I only care that everyone knows what kind of scam they are playing into.

Souless wrote:

so please, don't scam gamers lieing about your "Freemium" point of view, we are not stupid...

Souless wrote:

Pay to Win games are made to provide large profits to the devs and companies, not for the pure purpose of paying the server costs and the efforts...

Hegorn, I fail to see how the above comments are being made in a constructive way. In fact, I would go as far as saying that they were meant to personally offend the development team and inflict damage. "Scammers"? "Lying"? "We consider the community stupid?"

I find very hard to believe that we have given the impression that we created Battle Conquest to become a money sink. If that is so, why the heck is the whole team and me personally all over the Forums discussing with the community about how to improve the game? Is this another of our scams? Is this just PR? And if it is so, then why are we continuously updating the game with tweaks in the mechanics in an effort to reach the "perfect balance"?

We do not charge for a user to play the game. We do not force anyone to play the game. If for any reason they "got bored", because our game is a "Korean grinding game", or they believe that the pure purpose of our game is to "provide large profits to the devs", then please...your "salvation" is just one click away...

RuneSlayer wrote:

Hegorn, I fail to see how the above comments are being made in a constructive way. In fact, I would go as far as saying that they were meant to personally offend the development team and inflict damage. "Scammers"? "Lying"? "We consider the community stupid?"

I think he went about that foolishly and was overboard with what he said. I disagree with how he brought this topic up. I just tried to steer the conversation back to something that could bring valuable feedback to the dev team.

If you want to lock this thread for that reason alone, I would think you were completely justified to do so. That said, I do feel like there is a discussion to be had here with some useful feedback that us players can give the dev team out of a genuine interest to help improve the game.

Perhaps another thread is a better place to do it?

Hegorn wrote:

Perhaps another thread is a better place to do it?

Ha I literally glanced at this thread and thought how nice it would be to move some posts to another, more civilized, thread. Or to start anew, especially about the droprates.

(p.s. I dropped 5 gl frags total, all of them before I started using better droprates. Haven't dropped any godlike for over a month)

Personally I think this discussion should be moved.
The one thing that could be considered real pay to win is in my opinion godlikes in pvp and that's something that's worked on.

By the way I got 1 gl fragment in 20k CP.

K, sorry if I have been too hard in this discussion, Runeslayer, feel free to remove this discussion completely, and if it's the case ban me for a few days. I already had some rest from the boredom and frustration that led me into expressing my freedom of speech here.

I dont remember that anyone has been suspended/banned for his opinion, nor any topics has been deleted.

So what the hell are you talking about?

General agreement seems to be that GLs don't drop. I've gotten 1 GL frag in 16.5k CP, and I have a rather healthy amount of drop rate.

Gorlak wrote:

 I have a total of 36% in drop rate items acquired over the time I've been playing and use about half of them in each army.  My drops have been a total of 11 epic frags and 8 GL frags acquired during my 50K CPs (some of which include the dark boost I assume), but since the frags are split over the various item categories, I can only make 2 epic and 1 GL items to date.

Edit: Most of my battles are done on NM with the remainder being coop and a very few PvP

Holy SHIT! 11 epic and --8--? godlikes?!?!
I've gotten like.. TWO? godlikes from drops! thats with about 120% droprate! (maybe half a dozen epics from drops 3-4 from quests)

someone else chime in here... I know rune said there 'wasn't' a darkside droprate bonus, but I'm thinking that there had to have been.

I also primarily do NMs and coops... the only time I do a rare/normal is when I get a defend quest and it's not on a border-zone.
I did do my share of PVPs a while ago. perhaps 10 matches total(back when items dropped... before the lobby *rubs hands together at having sniped newby matches organized via global*) but best i ever got was a rare i think.

Archer wrote:

I know rune said there 'wasn't' a darkside droprate bonus, but I'm thinking that there had to have been.

I want to emphasize again that there ISN'T any droprate bonus related to the population control mechanism.

Gorlak wrote:

My drops have been a total of 11 epic frags and 8 GL frags acquired during my 50K CPs

When there is a little bit of consistency, then i'll maybe gain during the next 8k CPs, 6 epic frags and 7 GL frags more, to receive the stage of luck, which you had.
 

Ps.: Playing since some weeks with ~40-60% drop rate...