Why did most dark players stop pvping?

I have my very own opinion about that, but I would just like to know why on first hand. The tiers are flooded with lighties (mostly elves and some humans and dwarves as well). Before the merge and the drastic battle mechanic changes it was rather balanced with a slightly bigger number of darkies pvping. So why did you stop?

Because of other darkies telling darkies not to pvp lighties. I don't know all of them but I know that Mazzrah has told her guild members not to trade with lighties. I'm willing to guess that she also tells them not to pvp lighties. Or all of you darkies are scared to get your ***es kicked   


Also by the way i've noticed that in a few threads darkies have mentioned that now all there is in pvp is lightie campers(they bring ranged and hide out in one spot) but on the other hand I've noticed the exact same thing with the very few darkies who will pvp. So now that archers are a lot stronger it seems darkies have found that it's too hard and are just giving up... It is not that bad. Adapt to the new tactics in whatever way you can.

When skellies didn't get a nerf there were times when I had to just stop pvping for a few days simply because of how frustrating it was. No matter what gear I had or if I played better they could just ball up and beat me. It was infuriating but I still kept at it trying to find a way to beat them. Which was stupidly getting godlike gear and just beating them with superior gear.

I was hoping for something more elaborate and first hand information than just camping archer elves. The thing I find most annoying of all is that i dont get to PvP anybody else but elves with very few exceptions.

Claudandus wrote:

I was hoping for something more elaborate and first hand information than just camping archer elves. The thing I find most annoying of all is that i dont get to PvP anybody else but elves with very few exceptions.

Why ask on the forum then? Why not ask in faction chat?

I just dont think that dark players are less capable of adapting to change than lighties. Some players might be incapable or unwilling to adapt but those are mostly spread equally between 2 groups and not just on one group. So there might be a game related reason why more darkies stopped pvping than lighties.

Already asked in faction chat with not a very satisfying result.

It's easy to say why "ALL" darks don't pvp, and it's because "ALL" darks are sac-less.

ask them what it's about, fow,archer,gls,high units in the tier, etc.

A loser is loser, he'll find any excuse to remain a loser.

Aye, most of us didn't quit during the UD OPness era, when basically all you get is 9 uds out of 10 pvps.

Look like dark players are stopping pvping for both frustating and losing, I very rarely win a battle against most ligthies but I think that is for my bad gear but about other darkies many pvpers are DL and they dont pvp because they say their race is not goot for pvping for bad HI and LI and about UD I really dont know why many of they have stopped pvping, and about orcs well we just lack seriusly in players and many orc players just lose some battles and dont pvp again... Is frustating for me too the only players willing to pvp without use kitting or camping are players with much better items than me and for that I rather do 2vs2 to have better chances to win but very rarely find any darkie who want pvp to do the 2vs2
and another thing I want know why other darkies with great gear dont pvp anymore or rarely or never pvp?

Scaren wrote:

Because of other darkies telling darkies not to pvp lighties. I don't know all of them but I know that Mazzrah has told her guild members not to trade with lighties. I'm willing to guess that she also tells them not to pvp lighties. Or all of you darkies are scared to get your ***es kicked   


Also by the way i've noticed that in a few threads darkies have mentioned that now all there is in pvp is lightie campers(they bring ranged and hide out in one spot) but on the other hand I've noticed the exact same thing with the very few darkies who will pvp. So now that archers are a lot stronger it seems darkies have found that it's too hard and are just giving up... It is not that bad. Adapt to the new tactics in whatever way you can.

When skellies didn't get a nerf there were times when I had to just stop pvping for a few days simply because of how frustrating it was. No matter what gear I had or if I played better they could just ball up and beat me. It was infuriating but I still kept at it trying to find a way to beat them. Which was stupidly getting godlike gear and just beating them with superior gear.

And about what you say I dont have see anyone telling us to dont pvp against ligthies, is hard find opponents to do dark pvps too, and about kicking asses, in certain form its true, its really demoralizing enter in a battle and think you already have lose the battle dont matter what you do or how you play, your opponent have better gear, better units, and research too...

Bblazer wrote:

It's easy to say why "ALL" darks don't pvp, and it's because "ALL" darks are sac-less.

ask them what it's about, fow,archer,gls,high units in the tier, etc.

A loser is loser, he'll find any excuse to remain a loser.

So basically the explanation you and Scaren are offering is that darks are worse players who lack both, skill and gut?

Bblazer wrote:

It's easy to say why "ALL" darks don't pvp, and it's because "ALL" darks are sac-less.

ask them what it's about, fow,archer,gls,high units in the tier, etc.

A loser is loser, he'll find any excuse to remain a loser.

Aye, most of us didn't quit during the UD OPness era, when basically all you get is 9 uds out of 10 pvps.

Except there really are some real issues with power scaling which severely benefit those with high levels and mountains of expensive godlikes. However, that doesn't explain why the high level high gear dark players quit pvping. Maybe inactivity is part of it, as well as the combination of desperation in the war effort and lack of cps from pvps.

I think:

-PvP needs to offer a little more valuable amount of cps, so that it's not objectively worse for the war effort than solo or coop.

-Gear can't be the most important aspect to winning. Players with less gear need to have a reasonable chance against players with more gear.

-More race balance is needed. Dark races are on the bad side of the balance, especially since every dark race has a worse artillery than the light side and other than dwarf light side archers are the best. Since now archers are actually important, dark needs something to compensate, such as perhaps more armor cap on HI or a slight boost to their archers. And they need artillery that are actually competitive with light artillery. Fog of war greatly limits dark artillery usefulness.

-At some point, the game needs to be opened up to new players again. More activity = more excitement and eventually more pvps (but only if the balance problems are fixed. Otherwise they will just get pounded by the veterans and either quit pvping or quit altogether, which is why this should happen only after balance improvements, to support a more warm environment).

And then we should have better player balance in pvp.

Well mine is It just lost the fun of it when I cant bring the same units as my opponent without sacrificing gear so those elven archers always rip em to schreds.But its just that elves are probably now the best race in PVP now not saying its a bad thing but alot of cold streaks are happening to skellie player or something else or maybe some skellies are just dominant and others arent who knows?Not complaining about the nerf but people just want to coop or do solos instead.Or maybe its FoW but I personally just lost the interest in PVPs.

I can't speak for everybody, but there are two big reasons why I don't PvP as much as I used too.  The first is that I gain far more CP doing coops and solos, and I'm trying to hold my position in the rankings.  The second is the PvP tier system.

With many of my units approaching level 17, I'll only be able to PvP in T5 soon.  That is the biggest reason that I didn't PvP much on Olympus, most people were doing T1 and T2 PvP while my A team was in T4 PvP.

I think that there would be a lot more PvP if people could bring units of any level to any Tier of PvP.  If you have a level 7 heavy for example and want to play in T1, your heavy would be auto-adjusted to level 4 for the battle, similar to how newbies get a level boost in coops when paired with a more experienced player.  For this to be fair your unit would have to only be able to use gear that a level 4 unit could use though.  That would probably be a pain to code into the game.

I think the reason why you don't see many legion in PvP is the same reason why you don't see as many human players in PvP, they're underpowered in PvP compared to other races.  As an undead I personally have no aversion to PvP. If I make my CP goal for the day I will sometimes play a match or two at the end of the day, if I can find partners.

Anduin wrote:

I can't speak for everybody, but there are two big reasons why I don't PvP as much as I used too.  The first is that I gain far more CP doing coops and solos, and I'm trying to hold my position in the rankings.  The second is the PvP tier system.

With many of my units approaching level 17, I'll only be able to PvP in T5 soon.  That is the biggest reason that I didn't PvP much on Olympus, most people were doing T1 and T2 PvP while my A team was in T4 PvP.

I think that there would be a lot more PvP if people could bring units of any level to any Tier of PvP.  If you have a level 7 heavy for example and want to play in T1, your heavy would be auto-adjusted to level 4 for the battle, similar to how newbies get a level boost in coops when paired with a more experienced player.  For this to be fair your unit would have to only be able to use gear that a level 4 unit could use though.  That would probably be a pain to code into the game.

I think the reason why you don't see many legion in PvP is the same reason why you don't see as many human players in PvP, they're underpowered in PvP compared to other races.  As an undead I personally have no aversion to PvP. If I make my CP goal for the day I will sometimes play a match or two at the end of the day, if I can find partners.

Excellent points, thanks for sharing them.

Ok quite many reasons for me... And i guess i'm the person who has done the most pvps in this game so far, so even if such addicts start to avoid pvping...


VERY much the same:

Anduin wrote:

With many of my units approaching level 17, I'll only be able to PvP in T5 soon.

(if at least we could pvp guildmates.....)

--high levels are punished... ;/ my best army is t5, quite lonely there.

--high tier rewards. t1/2 people get godlike frag drops, and good cps. t4/t5 is mostly uncommons or less. And stupidly low cps. The frags drop is confirmed by many people... Once in t4/5, they're significantly more crappy.
As for cps... t3 is around 170.. t4 increases to like 174, t5... i always get  176, with 4k ap. So lots of casualties, time to setup, and t5 is same/worse rewards, both frags and CPs as t3..... (why such low cp cap???)

--with FOW the whole cannons non-LOS benefit is lost. Enemy doesn't charge out of fear anymore. And especially vs humans it's such a liability to bring any range.

--archers are buffed. Fun to use, in pve, even for darks... But in pvp.. Light archers are distinctly superior. If archer hits a lot, rapid fire ability becomes priceless, it's 30% faster shots...
-----darks have no good archers to counter those...
-----kiting is abundant
-----at least demons die to archers so damn well... i've had some pvps where lights camp and i have to charge and i lose half of my units before reaching enemy... It used to happen only vs light artillery. (now archer+arty setup, especially humans with rapid fire and arty 110 range.. is uncounterable - and since human melee units are average, it makes sense for them to become virtually elves...)

--legion heavies... Heavies seem to be the best unit to bring to pvps. Ours with 32 hps die to other hi too much, even capped. Low morale cap - easy to make them flee... Low armor - dies to range a lot. It's not unusual for me to see my full Hp hi lose 8 units and then happily flee off.. without touching enemy.

Strangely, from t5 pvps, when AP is free, gear doesn't matter too much.. It's more about the amount of units and if lights bring much range... If AP is limited, then instantly gear/caps become important.
Oh and i've lost a few pvps in t5 when i had godlike heavies and such, 1.5k AP advantage (yup, like 2x more ap than opponent...) and he just camps with archercannons, shredding every scout or even my cannons. A bit demotivating (but fun to bring such army to coops and see AI die...).

So tldr - frustrating races (other darks too i guess.. no good range, no rly superior units), vulnerable to range, light range is way better, levels -> no one to vs, crappy rewards, bad tactics (kiting)...

Fyrr wrote:

Ok quite many reasons for me... And i guess i'm the person who has done the most pvps in this game so far, so even if such addicts start to avoid pvping...


VERY much the same:

Anduin wrote:

With many of my units approaching level 17, I'll only be able to PvP in T5 soon.

(if at least we could pvp guildmates.....)

--high levels are punished... ;/ my best army is t5, quite lonely there.

--high tier rewards. t1/2 people get godlike frag drops, and good cps. t4/t5 is mostly uncommons or less. And stupidly low cps. The frags drop is confirmed by many people... Once in t4/5, they're significantly more crappy.
As for cps... t3 is around 170.. t4 increases to like 174, t5... i always get  176, with 4k ap. So lots of casualties, time to setup, and t5 is same/worse rewards, both frags and CPs as t3..... (why such low cp cap???)

--with FOW the whole cannons non-LOS benefit is lost. Enemy doesn't charge out of fear anymore. And especially vs humans it's such a liability to bring any range.

--archers are buffed. Fun to use, in pve, even for darks... But in pvp.. Light archers are distinctly superior. If archer hits a lot, rapid fire ability becomes priceless, it's 30% faster shots...
-----darks have no good archers to counter those...
-----kiting is abundant
-----at least demons die to archers so damn well... i've had some pvps where lights camp and i have to charge and i lose half of my units before reaching enemy... It used to happen only vs light artillery. (now archer+arty setup, especially humans with rapid fire and arty 110 range.. is uncounterable - and since human melee units are average, it makes sense for them to become virtually elves...)

--legion heavies... Heavies seem to be the best unit to bring to pvps. Ours with 32 hps die to other hi too much, even capped. Low morale cap - easy to make them flee... Low armor - dies to range a lot. It's not unusual for me to see my full Hp hi lose 8 units and then happily flee off.. without touching enemy.

Strangely, from t5 pvps, when AP is free, gear doesn't matter too much.. It's more about the amount of units and if lights bring much range... If AP is limited, then instantly gear/caps become important.
Oh and i've lost a few pvps in t5 when i had godlike heavies and such, 1.5k AP advantage (yup, like 2x more ap than opponent...) and he just camps with archercannons, shredding every scout or even my cannons. A bit demotivating (but fun to bring such army to coops and see AI die...).

So tldr - frustrating races (other darks too i guess.. no good range, no rly superior units), vulnerable to range, light range is way better, levels -> no one to vs, crappy rewards, bad tactics (kiting)...

Glad that you and partly bobba brought those points out in the open cause I felt like I've taken my fair share of resentment towards my efforts to establish some kind of balance here. If even Fyrr, feels totally screwed over for 2 reasons (first of all he got the bitter DL stick, and second of all he cant possibly compete with lightie range) maybe some people will eventually see that something needs to be done.
A higher range for archers is priceless to have, especially when lightie feels comfortable to sit in a spot without budging an inch.

Claudandus wrote:

Fyrr wrote:

Ok quite many reasons for me... And i guess i'm the person who has done the most pvps in this game so far, so even if such addicts start to avoid pvping...


VERY much the same:

Anduin wrote:

With many of my units approaching level 17, I'll only be able to PvP in T5 soon.

(if at least we could pvp guildmates.....)

--high levels are punished... ;/ my best army is t5, quite lonely there.

--high tier rewards. t1/2 people get godlike frag drops, and good cps. t4/t5 is mostly uncommons or less. And stupidly low cps. The frags drop is confirmed by many people... Once in t4/5, they're significantly more crappy.
As for cps... t3 is around 170.. t4 increases to like 174, t5... i always get  176, with 4k ap. So lots of casualties, time to setup, and t5 is same/worse rewards, both frags and CPs as t3..... (why such low cp cap???)

--with FOW the whole cannons non-LOS benefit is lost. Enemy doesn't charge out of fear anymore. And especially vs humans it's such a liability to bring any range.

--archers are buffed. Fun to use, in pve, even for darks... But in pvp.. Light archers are distinctly superior. If archer hits a lot, rapid fire ability becomes priceless, it's 30% faster shots...
-----darks have no good archers to counter those...
-----kiting is abundant
-----at least demons die to archers so damn well... i've had some pvps where lights camp and i have to charge and i lose half of my units before reaching enemy... It used to happen only vs light artillery. (now archer+arty setup, especially humans with rapid fire and arty 110 range.. is uncounterable - and since human melee units are average, it makes sense for them to become virtually elves...)

--legion heavies... Heavies seem to be the best unit to bring to pvps. Ours with 32 hps die to other hi too much, even capped. Low morale cap - easy to make them flee... Low armor - dies to range a lot. It's not unusual for me to see my full Hp hi lose 8 units and then happily flee off.. without touching enemy.

Strangely, from t5 pvps, when AP is free, gear doesn't matter too much.. It's more about the amount of units and if lights bring much range... If AP is limited, then instantly gear/caps become important.
Oh and i've lost a few pvps in t5 when i had godlike heavies and such, 1.5k AP advantage (yup, like 2x more ap than opponent...) and he just camps with archercannons, shredding every scout or even my cannons. A bit demotivating (but fun to bring such army to coops and see AI die...).

So tldr - frustrating races (other darks too i guess.. no good range, no rly superior units), vulnerable to range, light range is way better, levels -> no one to vs, crappy rewards, bad tactics (kiting)...

Glad that you and partly bobba brought those points out in the open cause I felt like I've taken my fair share of resentment towards my efforts to establish some kind of balance here. If even Fyrr, feels totally screwed over for 2 reasons (first of all he got the bitter DL stick, and second of all he cant possibly compete with lightie range) maybe some people will eventually see that something needs to be done.
A higher range for archers is priceless to have, especially when lightie feels comfortable to sit in a spot without budging an inch.

So much good ideas. I would really like to see ALL these things looked at. DL HI is partially looked at already, and really the 20 HI thing from the test server seems to have worked pretty well at least in the high tier games. Might be a little OP in tier 1 and 2 because of starting stats though (but that's easily fixed). I hope that change makes it into the live server soon.

CP rewards are quite low for the time spent no matter the tier, but the jump you mention from t3 to t5 is wayyyyyy to low. something like 230-250 CP cap for t5 (and actually being reachable) would make the most sense to me. Also not sure what it is about drops but they need some adjustment as well. I have not played t4/t5 anytime recently but t1's are much faster than t3's or higher to battle but offer nearly the same drops. There should be a bit more of a change in drops from t1-t5. So slightly less drops for low tiers, and slightly more drops for high tiers than there are currently would make the most sense.

Finally, totally agreed about the ranged factor. DARK NEED A USABLE ARTILLERY. The previous buff (blast radius+) hardly did anything to make them better. And lastly, dark archers just don't compare with light archers. They need something to make up for this or it's rigged towards light side.

Oh gosh, I should start indicating in my posts   Do not quote in its entirety   
i write way too much.

After some thinking...

Scaren wrote:

Because of other darkies telling darkies not to pvp lighties

some newer players indeed stick to their own faction, because otherwise it's gifting enemy cps...

Ulises wrote:

And about what you say I dont have see anyone telling us to dont pvp against ligthies

you missed at least 3 horrible and long chats, in global mostly, when people openly tell lights 'no i won't pvp you'. Or when someone who doesn't even pvp, goes to global to say that along with implications that lights are so unworthy of anything... Faction pride is taken too seriously sometimes.
And for the record, I saw a couple of lights who stated the same about not pvping the opposite faction....
But this issue is significantly lesser than the other reasons... Though... if darks can't win vs lights, it's partially preferable for them to pvp each other than not pvp at all.

Anduin wrote:

As an undead I personally have no aversion to PvP. If I make my CP goal for the day I will sometimes play a match or two at the end of the day, if I can find partners.

is finding partners easy..?
and seems you haven't been kited or shot to death. It does get old after a while.
And having legion as partner in 2v2s, horrible! ;p
Only a few skellies still have a chance vs lights, it takes actual tactics now... (i wonder how those capped li would fare..)

Claud wrote:

Fyrr, feels totally screwed over for 2 reasons (first of all he got the bitter DL stick, and second of all he cant possibly compete with lightie range)

for the record, i still can win sometimes, barely and it takes specific enemy setups.

So if the cps/rewards would be better, it would be worth it to keep trying, and to keep searching for anyone who's leveled enough... So i guess for me it's more like 'either make it easy to get pvps/good rewards/cps, or make it easier to actually win so even the lower rewards don't seem so bad after many wins'. The timewasting/less-cps aspect is important too, for some people (damn ranking by cps motivates to earn them...), but yea probably the impossibility to win is more important.

Bobba wrote:

really the 20 HI thing from the test server seems to have worked pretty well

yeah.. it was for once not too horrid to use.... Still not even close to dwarves or skellies.

I'm not disputing that DL HI die way to quickly and easily to ranged but on the other hand skellie HI aren't as effected by ranged. My artillery seems to do the same damage to every unit. For example it can either get 3 kills on an HI or 3 kills on an LI regardless of gear(most of time). So I can either get 4 kills on a DL HI which is 25% of the entire unit or 4 kills on a skelly HI which is 16% of that unit.

Scaren wrote:

I'm not disputing that DL HI die way to quickly and easily to ranged but on the other hand skellie HI aren't as effected by ranged. My artillery seems to do the same damage to every unit. For example it can either get 3 kills on an HI or 3 kills on an LI regardless of gear(most of time). So I can either get 4 kills on a DL HI which is 25% of the entire unit or 4 kills on a skelly HI which is 16% of that unit.

yep, light artillery are kind of strange with how they react to armor/endurance (not at all?). Dark artillery on the other hand is very ineffective against heavy units but seems to do reasonable damage to light units. And archers seem to be effective (but with low damage) against for example HI with a lot of end/armor even when the archer's strength isn't very high. So in general, undead is best against enemy artillery simply by having more units, however their HI and LI/LIA can sometimes take a lot of damage by arrows due to low end/armor.

Maybe light artillery is so powerful that it does the maximum possible damage to almost all units? Maybe it's too powerful on those capped HI...

Bobba wrote:

Scaren wrote:

I'm not disputing that DL HI die way to quickly and easily to ranged but on the other hand skellie HI aren't as effected by ranged. My artillery seems to do the same damage to every unit. For example it can either get 3 kills on an HI or 3 kills on an LI regardless of gear(most of time). So I can either get 4 kills on a DL HI which is 25% of the entire unit or 4 kills on a skelly HI which is 16% of that unit.

yep, light artillery are kind of strange with how they react to armor/endurance (not at all?). Dark artillery on the other hand is very ineffective against heavy units but seems to do reasonable damage to light units. And archers seem to be effective (but with low damage) against for example HI with a lot of end/armor even when the archer's strength isn't very high. So in general, undead is best against enemy artillery simply by having more units, however their HI and LI/LIA can sometimes take a lot of damage by arrows due to low end/armor.

Maybe light artillery is so powerful that it does the maximum possible damage to almost all units? Maybe it's too powerful on those capped HI...

How many missile strengh is supposed ligth arty to have? and did they receive +1 missile strengh every time they level up like archers?

Artillery missile strength is an ongoing mystery
Around 60 for dark arti, around 70-75 for elven bolts, 80 for human cannons, 80-85 for dwarven ones. (It has been confirmed that elven bolts have lower str than cannons). I heard that estimate few times, dont recall a dev statement tho.

There may also be some kind of dice system involved - so every arti shot is different. This would mean that some elven shots are just as good as dwarven ones. Once again, no idea about the details and whether this is still valid at all.

As for felt impact vs armor/endurance. Str is reducing armor save roll. Essentially dark HI could have a 10% chance to roll armor save vs dwarven arti. Dwarven HI could have 30% chance to roll armor save vs dark arti. And clearly higher str rolls wounds better vs endurance.

I've given up on PvP, my orcs just keep running from the battle. Plus it's mostly people with a lot better gear I've run into. I already had problems on Olympus when I was facing undead, the gear players have on now is even better!

The PvP system I think needs a lot of work, often people try to organize a fight but have to give up because something doesn't let them fight. Players simply give up and drift back to faction chat.

Bobba wrote:

. So in general, undead is best against enemy artillery simply by having more units, however their HI and LI/LIA can sometimes take a lot of damage by arrows due to low end/armor.

I totally have to disagree with that. UD HI is second worst against lightie range, for 3 simple reasons - morale loss multiplier, hit probability and morale, LoC. The tremendous morale loss UD suffers from range results in an easy melee fight for the opponent. Even if I lose only 5 troopers my morale is close to its half. Losing further morale quickly once engaged to another HI of equal gear results in a swift death.
When approaching sitting archer army without having a bait unit to sacrifice it is better to move your units in bundles, so no individual unit is made worthless before melee even starts and hope you can split them right in time for avoiding flanks and flanking yourself. But when the sitting archer army has light artillery on top of it, either way of approaching is bad.
And indeed light arti doesnt seem to care at what it is shooting at. be it capped HI or LIA, the only thing that matters is the volume of the unit.

Fyrr wrote:

high levels are punished... ;/ my best army is t5, quite lonely there.

Nothing we can do to change this in this current game without creating a riot and having to redesign Battle Conquest from the bottom up. AI PvP could possibly help out here.

Fyrr wrote:

--high tier rewards. t1/2 people get godlike frag drops, and good cps. t4/t5 is mostly uncommons or less. And stupidly low cps. The frags drop is confirmed by many people... Once in t4/5, they're significantly more crappy.
As for cps... t3 is around 170.. t4 increases to like 174, t5... i always get 176, with 4k ap. So lots of casualties, time to setup, and t5 is same/worse rewards, both frags and CPs as t3..... (why such low cp cap???)

Not true.. T4/T5 are not uncommons or less. I would say that people on T4/T5 had some bad luck when it came to drops.

As for the CP, this is something that could be arranged.

Fyrr wrote:

with FOW the whole cannons non-LOS benefit is lost. Enemy doesn't charge out of fear anymore. And especially vs humans it's such a liability to bring any range.

I can understand the logic behind this argument, but dark artillery units have an AOE, which light artillery units don't have.

Fyrr wrote:

--archers are buffed. Fun to use, in pve, even for darks... But in pvp.. Light archers are distinctly superior. If archer hits a lot, rapid fire ability becomes priceless, it's 30% faster shots...

3 options here...

i) We nerf the ranged units
ii) We add a bonus to Armor Save versus ranged
iii) We slightly nerf the ranged units and add a bonus to Armor Save versus ranged

Fyrr wrote:

legion heavies... Heavies seem to be the best unit to bring to pvps. Ours with 32 hps die to other hi too much, even capped. Low morale cap - easy to make them flee... Low armor - dies to range a lot. It's not unusual for me to see my full Hp hi lose 8 units and then happily flee off.. without touching enemy.

Haven't we already solved this problem on the Test Server?

Fyrr wrote:

and he just camps with archercannons, shredding every scout or even my cannons.

Look above..

Rune wrote:

i) We nerf the ranged units
ii) We add a bonus to Armor Save versus ranged
iii) We slightly nerf the ranged units and add a bonus to Armor Save versus ranged

That would all be general nerfs or changes that would again effect any race equally. The problem here is with certain archers and artillery, not with all of them.