What are the devs cooking...?

There has been a lot of discussion around the items and their effect in a battle. It seems that units equipped with Godlike items could become invincible even if attacked by all sides. It was never our intention to create a heavily dependent on items battle system, but rather achieve a balanced combination between items-skills-tactics-decision making and good army composition. In order to balance things out we have done the following:

1) We have changed the relation of AP to stats values in order to have a smoother progression. Therefore, AP values for the items have changed. Common, uncommon and some rare items have now reduced AP, while epic and godlike have either the same or a slightly higher AP value.

2) The AP of the Heroes' items have been reduced to around 40% of the actual AP value of an item for an ordinary unit.

3) In order to retain the archetype of each unit, we have increased/reduced stats caps for all the units. Before the change, an Infantry unit could become a Heavy Infantry unit with the right combination of items. For example, an Infantry unit has a lower Armor cap than a Heavy Infantry unit.

4) The AP per lvl up of a unit has changed in order to provide a smoother progression.

5) Archers have become slightly more powerful, though do not expect to kill Heavy Infantry units with ease.

6) We will soon apply gear limits, which will depend on the AP value of a unit. For example, an Infantry unit of 79 AP will be able to equip a total of 79 AP of gear. The higher the level and the type of the unit, the higher AP valued items can be used.

7) The MOBA (Morale in battle) reduction when flanked/reared has slightly been decreased to slightly decrease the possibility of an instant "flee" action. Soon, we will use number of troops in a unit as a variable to the equation. That will prevent cases where a unit of 14 troops is flanked by 4 troops and flees.

All the above changes will go live with the next update, which should be on Monday the 1st or Tuesday the 2nd of July.

We are adding a few filters to catch multi accounts, especially in PVP. People violating the BC rules will be punished...

A player will need a min amount of Fame before he can participate in a PvP battle. Also, items will be replaced with fragments.

The first layer of Guild Warfare should go live next week. Several regions on the World Map will have special bonuses and Guilds will be able to fight for control of a region and conduct diplomacy with other Guilds. Although the bonuses will not be enabled with the first patch, Guilds will be able to control the regions with the best regional bonuses and reserve the bonuses when they are enabled very very very very soon. Expect Trolls, Ogres, Cave Giants, Giant Spiders, Spider Swarm, Training Grounds, Ancient Forge and other regional bonuses......

Check out the Dev Blog at http://battleconforums.com/blog/ to have a first look at some of the new units coming up!

Great stuff. Keep up the good work!

Can you change one more thing? Can you adjust max stat not only to the unit (like LI), but to the race.
For example Dark Legion HI will always lose against HI different race at endgame (units with godlike items), stats are max or almost max so they lose their advantage and still suffering disadvantage from low health, there are many similar cases (like dwarves CAV).

Good stuff!

This sounds like it will be a possible improvement. However it may be a good idea to create a free for all Nightmare version for pvp that allows people to equip anything they want and have.

Seems to go in the right direction. Now, we need to test it nigame

Very nice! The changes do look like theyre in the right direction. Thanks.

Will you make the new stat caps public knowledge since we dont have the old bug to determine them ourselves anymore?

kuba_ wrote:

Can you change one more thing? Can you adjust max stat not only to the unit (like LI), but to the race.
For example Dark Legion HI will always lose against HI different race at endgame (units with godlike items), stats are max or almost max so they lose their advantage and still suffering disadvantage from low health, there are many similar cases (like dwarves CAV).

I actually like that stat caps are based on unit archetypes and are not based on races. It allows for gear setups to compensate for racial differences - maybe not perfect 1:1 stat compensation, but asymmetrically balanced compensation. That is more interesting in my opinion.

That said, in the case of DL cav and HINFs, what you say is definitely true *if* the stat caps for combat stats can be hit. Currently it is quite hard to hit stat caps - even with the DL bonuses and even with near perfect Godlike gear. I detailed the math in a post here:
http://www.battleconforum.com/t468-dark-legion-cavalry-on-pve#2310
It is also very hard for us to value 1HP vs the other stats right now.

If the devs intend to lower LINF stat caps and raise Cav / HINF stat caps, they may not be any innate imbalance for DL. This depends a lot on the new AP valuations, the new stat caps, and the fact that gear will be dependent on the AP of the ungeared unit.

Hegorn wrote:

Will you make the new stat caps public knowledge since we dont have the old bug to determine them ourselves anymore?

Most definitely.

Hegorn wrote:

That said, in the case of DL cav and HINFs, what you say is definitely true *if* the stat caps for combat stats can be hit. Currently it is quite hard to hit stat caps - even with the DL bonuses and even with near perfect Godlike gear. I detailed the math in a post here:
http://www.battleconforum.com/t468-dark-legion-cavalry-on-pve#2310
It is also very hard for us to value 1HP vs the other stats right now.

If the devs intend to lower LINF stat caps and raise Cav / HINF stat caps, they may not be any innate imbalance for DL. This depends a lot on the new AP valuations, the new stat caps, and the fact that gear will be dependent on the AP of the ungeared unit.

Let's wait and see...

Ty as always Runeslayer for updating and improving the game, your efforts will be rewarded I hope you like some of my suggestions about the game like the black market or the training stats for units and heroes, we all want the game to be more enjoyable.

Nice work, I love it

-Licks Runeslayer-

With the improvement to archers can you make the 'hidden' strength stat for missile be... well... NOT hidden?

I'll give you a hug!

Archer wrote:

-Licks Runeslayer-

With the improvement to archers can you make the 'hidden' strength stat for missile be... well... NOT hidden?

I'll give you a hug!

It will not show in the game window, but we will certainly inform you about it.

I feel like this update kind of screws the people that have paid money for this game. With the higher ap cost that went into effect I have some items for li with ap in the 60's. After the ap cap goes on I'll hardly be able to use the items I spent money to get. The flat increase I can accept, but making stuff I have paid money for useless I can not agree with. Also with my archers the gl armor I have is useless as well. There has to be a better way to balance things without throwing our investments back in our faces. I was willing to spend a lot of money on this game because I enjoy it and play nearly 40 hours a week. Please find a way to assure me that my money has not been wasted. I hope I am just misunderstanding these updates. But with what has been changed so far I am a little mad.

Also before anyone starts saying I just want to have an unstoppable army... ask the devs to pull my pvp record. At least 80% of my matches are against people with gear equal to mine or higher. I understand the game needs to be balanced. I just don't want my money wasted.

Reason wrote:

I feel like this update kind of screws the people that have paid money for this game. With the higher ap cost that went into effect I have some items for li with ap in the 60's. After the ap cap goes on I'll hardly be able to use the items I spent money to get. The flat increase I can accept, but making stuff I have paid money for useless I can not agree with. Also with my archers the gl armor I have is useless as well. There has to be a better way to balance things without throwing our investments back in our faces. I was willing to spend a lot of money on this game because I enjoy it and play nearly 40 hours a week. Please find a way to assure me that my money has not been wasted. I hope I am just misunderstanding these updates. But with what has been changed so far I am a little mad.

Reason, the AP gear limits are not yet on for a "reason". When they go live and if you or any other player has still a problem with them, then you can all definitely tell us that we shouldn't have done it "that" way, but as this is not the case right now, let's wait and see what the "devs are cooking"... We are not that crazy..

I'll trust yall. You have done well so far about being fair to everyone, and fixing your fixes when there is an issue. But when I'm getting close to (kinda sad to admit but $300 usd) into this game I get worried. I have loved this game and want to continue supporting an amazing title. Its hard to find a game with both a great community and good/prompt support from the devs.

And we love our community back and we cherish its continuous support from day 1.

Is it in the project to include Ogres, Vampires, Frost Giants, Trolls, Imps and other Demons and Possessed beings in the game as races or as units?

Souless wrote:

Is it in the project to include Ogres, Vampires, Frost Giants, Trolls, Imps and other Demons and Possessed beings in the game as races or as units?

Mmmmmmaybe...

How do u plan to keep the balance of the game if you implement regional bonuses?

At this rate, light will eventually take over the map, let’s say they win over 95% of the map, then there is no incentive for them to finish the war and reset the map. They will keep the regions and always get bonuses.
New players would also be more inclined to join the stronger side, hence increase the difference in strength of the 2 factions even more. Stronger players will eventually gather in 1 or 2 guilds, making the lesser guilds unable to compete. There are many potential problems. This should be really considered.

Gafse wrote:

How do u plan to keep the balance of the game if you implement regional bonuses?

At this rate, light will eventually take over the map, let’s say they win over 95% of the map, then there is no incentive for them to finish the war and reset the map. They will keep the regions and always get bonuses.
New players would also be more inclined to join the stronger side, hence increase the difference in strength of the 2 factions even more. Stronger players will eventually gather in 1 or 2 guilds, making the lesser guilds unable to compete. There are many potential problems. This should be really considered.

As more ground is covered by the light side there will be more fights over the regions that gives bonusses. This will take the fight away from the frontline, thus less light players are attacking/defending the borders, thus the darkside can use this oppunity to push the light border back.
Every advantage has it's disadvantage, so i dont think you should bother to much that the game is in "disbalance" as you suggests.

ezeltje wrote:

Gafse wrote:

How do u plan to keep the balance of the game if you implement regional bonuses?

At this rate, light will eventually take over the map, let’s say they win over 95% of the map, then there is no incentive for them to finish the war and reset the map. They will keep the regions and always get bonuses.
New players would also be more inclined to join the stronger side, hence increase the difference in strength of the 2 factions even more. Stronger players will eventually gather in 1 or 2 guilds, making the lesser guilds unable to compete. There are many potential problems. This should be really considered.

As more ground is covered by the light side there will be more fights over the regions that gives bonusses. This will take the fight away from the frontline, thus less light players are attacking/defending the  borders, thus the darkside can use this oppunity to push the light border back.
Every advantage has it's disadvantage, so i dont think you should bother to much that the game is in "disbalance" as you suggests.

Never underestimate the greed of men (and women)... Well said ezeltje..

It's an eternal stalemate don't worry about winning the map, no one can  

For the very reason that I DIDN'T underestimate the greed of human, i can guarantee you there are going to be problems and balancing issues.

For example, what do you think the first thing I would do after the regional bonus is applied? Ditch my current guild, if it is not the strongest guild in the faction, and join the top guild. That's what everyone would do. It will be easy for me to get accepted because I am one of the top 50 players.

Soon, each faction will have only 1 or 2 guilds, that hogs all the top players. And eventually become 1 giant guild for each faction, when the rest begins to lose, and strong players all start to jump ships.

Gafse wrote:

For the very reason that I DIDN'T underestimate the greed of human, i can guarantee you there are going to be problems and balancing issues.

I agree you would be completely correct if there was a map reset after a capital "win" or "capture". The devs have mentioned there would not be a hard reset when a capital is captured though.

Gafse wrote:

For the very reason that I DIDN'T underestimate the greed of human, i can guarantee you there are going to be problems and balancing issues.

For example, what do you think the first thing I would do after the regional bonus is applied? Ditch my current guild, if it is not the strongest guild in the faction, and join the top guild. That's what everyone would do. It will be easy for me to get accepted because I am one of the top 50 players.

Soon, each faction will have only 1 or 2 guilds, that hogs all the top players. And eventually become 1 giant guild for each faction, when the rest begins to lose, and strong players all start to jump ships.

We are obviously aware of this situation and we do not want to stop this. The players will shape the world, we are just providing the tools. However, you are forgetting a few important things:

1) Guilds cannot have an unlimited number of members, as caps exist. Caps are not in the thousands...

2) Each Guild can gain control of a max number of 10 Regions.

3) The more Regions a Guild has, the more "open" it is in getting attacked and the more it will need to use its human resources in defending its Regions.

4) While Guilds are fighting for the control of Regions, the Faction War continues.

Runeslayer is right, no one is forced to fight for region control or to fight to breach to the enemy capital, we have free will of doing what we like, game is fun and I'm happy developers care about the game to let everyone enjoy it