Flanking bug for dwarves ?

Is it just me, or are Dwarf LI squads easier to flank because of how small the squad is? They take up less room so even when i engage two enemies from the front, they tend to wrap around the squad much easier than a large squad of Orcs or something. I've even got 'flanked' by a squad that was retreating from me, then turned out to re-engage, did so head on, and got a flanking bonus for it.

I dont think there should be a flanking bonus for that, they've already got a numbers bonus but they engaged from the front, not the sides or rear, they just tend to wrap around the sides because of said size issue.

I'm wondering if there are any POSITIVES to having a smaller squad, i've tried engaging in very narrow arrows but it seems both sides still get same amount of combatants in.

I'd like a bump on this, Yan says flanking is kind of bugged and i've seen the same thing, you can just engage one squad head on with 2 squads and get a flanking bonus. Flanking is sort of weird since only 5 units are fighting at a time right? So if you get flanked in the rear, you have 10 units in a squad fighting. I dont see how this would lower ones defense, but it would CRUSH moral and make them more likely to flee.

Since two squads can flank one squad simply because of the way they wrap around in a head on engagement, this makes me think that since Dwarf squads are physically smaller, they are more vulnerable to this happening. So naturally i dont like that

Flanking is not bugged. In order to flank a unit, you need to attack from a specific angle. If a unit is already engaged with an enemy unit and another one attacks it, it is possible to flank it even if the angle is not 90 degrees.

As for the "impact' of flanking and rearing, it will be part of the addition we want to make to the Morale mechanism.

Immediately upon flanking a unit, it will sustain a Morale loss and a Melee penalty. Rearing is going to be more devastating. Also, the unit flanking/rearing will receive a bonus to its Melee for the first 2 rounds of engagement, while the Melee penalty for the flanked/reared unit will be permanent, until it is not flanked/reared anymore.

When a unit breaks another, it will receive some Morale back.

When a unit rallies, it will receive some Morale back depending on its default Morale stat.

I have definitely experienced a flanking bug though, i was crushing some undead infantry, they were retreating, i was waddling after them, my squad was larger than theirs, they turned around to re-engage, we collided head on, and they got a flank on me! Saw the shield break icon on my unit, didnt make sense to me, no one should of gotten a flank bonus =/

Clashed head on and they got a flanking bonus?

Yes =/ both our squads were not at full size either. I'm going to engage headon battles in tight corridors and around sharp angles to see how units wrap around. Trying to find out if the actual dimension of a squad impact its ability to flank/be flanked.

It could be a kind of cool advantage of Undead, superior numbers naturally could wrap around a smaller squad in an open field, while they'd a numbers advantage in tight quarters.

I have seen some bugs on maps that have LOS features that are very close together - close enough that I cannot moveclick between them, but my units can still walk between them if I move them beyond the gap.

I've noticed that flanking happens when a unit with small numbers engages a unit with large numbers/spacing - and that makes sense.

Though, I wouldnt mind seeing the ability to change spacing of units. Close formations for defensive bonuses vs melee / cav. Open formations for defenses against archer fire and perhaps faster movement.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Flanking is not bugged. In order to flank a unit, you need to attack from a specific angle. If a unit is already engaged with an enemy unit and another one attacks it, it is possible to flank it even if the angle is not 90 degrees.

As for the "impact' of flanking and rearing, it will be part of the addition we want to make to the Morale mechanism.

Immediately upon flanking a unit, it will sustain a Morale loss and a Melee penalty. Rearing is going to be more devastating. Also, the unit flanking/rearing will receive a bonus to its Melee for the first 2 rounds of engagement, while the Melee penalty for the flanked/reared unit will be permanent, until it is not flanked/reared anymore.

When a unit breaks another, it will receive some Morale back.

When a unit rallies, it will receive some Morale back depending on its default Morale stat.

Again, Thanks for the info. Adding to my combat mechanics thread.

http://www.battleconforum.com/t142-new-player-help-understanding-unit-stats-and-combat-mechanics#449

There should be some kind of Str vs Endurance check to prevent an enemy from fleeing, it seems the only effective way for my dwarves to flank an enemy is to completely go around them, if i flank from the sides they'll just lose moral from it and run away. If we could flank, demoralize them, and HOLD them then we could give them proper beatings. I've noticed that just walking into a fleeing army just kills units like you're stepping on them but its a rare occasion for myself, usually its elves picking off the retreating squads since they can catch them. MvP indeed

You know how in movies where you got this big strong muscle guy fighting a small nimble guy and you know the second the big guy grabs him he could just KILL him, but instead what does he do? HE TOSSES HIM! He went through all that work to CATCH him, and then he THROWS him away and now has to catch him again. Thats how it feels !

Khor wrote:

There should be some kind of Str vs Endurance check to prevent an enemy from fleeing, it seems the only effective way for my dwarves to flank an enemy is to completely go around them, if i flank from the sides they'll just lose moral from it and run away. If we could flank, demoralize them, and HOLD them then we could give them proper beatings. I've noticed that just walking into a fleeing army just kills units like you're stepping on them but its a rare occasion for myself, usually its elves picking off the retreating squads since they can catch them. MvP indeed

You know how in movies where you got this big strong muscle guy fighting a small nimble guy and you know the second the big guy grabs him he could just KILL him, but instead what does he do? HE TOSSES HIM! He went through all that work to CATCH him, and then he THROWS him away and now has to catch him again. Thats how it feels !

Youre really stuck on the idea that you have to catch and kill fleeing units and thats a big reason why speed discrepancies are so bad in this game, or why dwarves should have X ability or Y ability. They are really nifty ideas, but I personally do not think that catching and killing a fleeing unit needs to be that big of a priority.

To a large degree, when a unit flees, its a huge advantage in my eyes. It usually means I now outnumber the enemy units somewhere on the battlefield and I can go concave on them or flank easier. It also gives me a free target for my ranged units to shoot at to keep it fleeing. Overall, I dont feel the need to immediately chase and kill him with my infantry. If he flees off the screen, he is removed from the battle just like if I had killed him.

I would also prefer to see devs working on changes / additions to the fleeing mechanics that add tactical value to everyone who plays the game instead of mechanics that affect just one race - things like more methods of Fleeing/Disengaging/Full retreats/escapes from the battlefield.

This is what they are doing with their revamp of morale. From what we have heard, it should make fleeing less attractive. Units cannot just pop back into battle at full effectiveness after running away from a battle with piss running down their legs. It will also give strong advantages to flanking/rearing a unit which will incentivise behavior you talk about like rearing units to kill them before they can flee.

If done well, it gives rise to more tactics for everyone and at the same time balances the diversity of stats among the various races. I would much prefer to see the devs doing things that maintain diversity rather than trying to balance through equality.

Gaining access to more unit types will do this too - especially units that are in a common pool to be selected from by any of the lightside races (and a separate pool for the dark side for flavor / story).

So overall, I think the devs are working on the right things in the right order. The small numbers tweaks and neat abilities to add are great to hear, but I hope players who call for them dont feel like the devs arent listening while they work on bigger game systems.

Besides the extra amount of time added to every single solo match, and the exp loss of fleeing units, it also makes it harder in co-op for getting kills, i have quests that want me to get MvP. Archers need chased or they'll stop and start shooting again, then its waiting or chasing. Of course its a huge HUGE advantage for an elf, you could walk over a fleeing squad and kill them all. Sometimes instead of chasing a squad, i WILL go support another one by flanking. Then im locked in combat, oh look the fleeing squad turned around and now they will flank me, i'd click retreat to disengage but that could send me marching into one army or another.

Actually, that could be something, a button to dis-engage in melee combat with an enemy, you roll a moral check against their moral to see if you successfully disengage or flee.

Anyways im discussing mechanics that effect one race because they happen to function differently for them, i.e. lower speed changes the game. Hell even flanking is a little bit harder when you move a little bit slower. And sure, i use gunners to take out some squads that flee, but its way less often i can because of the 25% difference in our range, also they're slower so once someone is out of range they're free.