The Dwarf HI

So every dwarf complained about the speed of the dwarf and against all logic you increased movement of dwarf HI to their LI making them probably the most efficient unit in the game and then you increased movement on cav which was a good idea and if i'm correct you are giving the cav a minicannon. You really should make the movement of all HI's the same this movement is a huge tactical advantage for dwarves in pvp and I see now no way to beat them so unless they are fixed I am not going to pvp dwarves anymore

Scaren, we don't change things because people complain, but because we believe that it will help the balance. Making their HI a bit faster than the other HI of the races, do not make them invincible. Also, the Dwarfs don't have a Cavalry, so they needed something unique, hence the mini cannon on the Ironfort. It still doesn't solve all their problems.

All races have advantages and disadvantages.

People rae complain that dwarfes are OP. I didnt think i will ever see that

Where is Zee to answer?

Although I agree that every race has it's advantages and disadvantages I have to ask what is the orc's advantage? We do have okay cav but besides that we are not better than humans or dwarves and since update I haven't won once against a dwarf

Scaren wrote:

Although I agree that every race has it's advantages and disadvantages I have to ask what is the orc's advantage? We do have okay cav but besides that we are not better than humans or dwarves and since update I haven't won once against a dwarf

Your chariot is a KILLER! I can't provide hints as to how to face a Dwarf army, but all you have to do is turn your opponent's disadvantages to your advantage..

As always you guys are doing great and I'm sorry i'm complaining i'm sure there is always someone and I will try some different tactics out but I'm still set on my opinion that dwarf HI should be same speed as every other HI and if there were a faster HI it should be elves although still set on my thoughts that every HI should be same speed

Hello Scaren,

Can you tell us which dwarf you pvp ? Because the skill of the player play a role too.

I know we had a good number of matches, but did you fight with other dwarves too ?

That's just out of curiosity. You know I agree that orcs needed a buff but now with the new caps balance has probably change.

Also, the max on dwarf HI endurance was 120. With the change it is now 100 if I read the new table correctly which is a big nerf to the dwarf HI (at least it's potential). And the orc HI has received a boost to max strenght.

Maybe it's time to make more tests now... hehe. ^^

Hello Nethack sorry I have fought around ten other dwarves than you and I can only remember the name of one who was Fraxous and sure I would like to test my new orcs against you

Whenever you want Scaren. You know I like to fight and I like fair rules if possible... so always a pleasure.

And yeah 10 dwarves is a pretty solid sample. But I tend to believe Runeslayer when he says a ran 100k simulations.

I'm curious to test your cav if / when you have acces to it. Dwarven cav only has 10HP so you'll probably have the upper hand there. But it should be an interesting experiment

My cav did absoutely terrible in pvp against krawhely not only did they do bad damage but they fled off the game so I will pvp you once with the cav but after that I will pvp you once more without them but I still fully expect to lose both games

Sorry if anyone misunderstood but although I don't understand why orc HI still has more AP than Dwarf HI still isn't my point my point is that giving dwarve HI better movement than all other HI is a huge advantage. This isn't about stats it's about their movement please just consider how much more they can do with their HI than every other race. All I ask of is just some thought on it

kuba_ wrote:

People rae complain that dwarfes are OP. I didnt think i will ever see that

Where is Zee to answer?

Here I am, I would love for a PvP % to be displayed. I can 100% guarantee without doubt that Dwarves will be on the bottom.

Scaren wrote:

Sorry if anyone misunderstood but although I don't understand why orc HI still has more AP than Dwarf HI still isn't my point my point is that giving dwarve HI better movement than all other HI is a huge advantage. This isn't about stats it's about their movement please just consider how much more they can do with their HI than every other race. All I ask of is just some thought on it

All our other units are slower... now imagine how much more all the other races can do.

Fine nerf dwarf HI speed ? But then please nerf the LI, LA, archers and cav speed of all the other races so we're on equal footing. We'll see how fun you'll think it is to have an entire army that moves at snail's speed. And the cav is still way slower than other cavs.

We have one unit that moves faster. You have all the other units that move faster. I don't see why it's a problem tbh.

Like Zee I would like to see the win/loss % of dwarf in pvp. I'm sure too that we would be at the very bottom.

Dwarves have had a lot of recent buffs. PvP winrates wouldnt be useful info unless it was per-patch winrates.

Even then, if it didnt have a sizeable number of unique pvpers per race (at least 20), I wouldnt put much stock in those stats.

What are those buffs you are talking about ? Please be specific and name each one of them with details.

So far the only buff that dwarves received that I'm aware of is an increase in the speed of the ironfort to 17 which is still way lower than the speed of other cavaleries (30).

The only other recent change I see is a nerf to the max endurance of the HI. Which was nerfed from 120 max to 100 max.

So what boosts are you talking about ? I don't think a boost to the cav speed will change that much the pvp win ratio. Now dwarven cav move as fast as the elve... infantry.

It has 10 HP which is the lowest of all cav from all race. So don't expect much more wins from dwarves in pvp. The stats would be perfectly valid.

Well, this is the only game where dwarf are fast units lol they needed some justice

ONE of our unit is a little bit faster than the other race ( +3 speed).

All the other units are slower. Light infantry / LA / archers are -2 compared to normal races and -4 compared to elves.

Cavalery is moving at 17 while other races are moving at 30...

I often joke because I play most of the PvE in fast speed... and the other players often reply to me : dwarves at high speed is like playing at normal speed.

So yeah dwarves are really slow I can assure you. Most of you don't seems to realise that if you choose badly where to engage as a dwarf, you're dead. And that you don't have a lot of choice to begin with since you can't reach all part of the map in time.

On the other hand, what did players using dwarfs expect?  

Dwarfs will always be slower (and rightfully so!) than other races and able to soak more damage and really you can not expect that to be different when you choose your race.

In case someone is that young or not that deep into fantasy and really is surprised by that there is always the option to reset since this seems to be so obvious you should notice after the first few matches so no big deal imo.

Don´t get me wrong, I am glad for anyone that enjoys the game like I do but everyone is responsible for his choices and can not expect the devs to do something complete unrealistic (yeah, talking realistic in a fantasy setting  ) and make dwarfs as fast as the other races.

I hope there will be a solution that pleases most of the dwarfs in the future though since they would have been my choice would I have gone the light way!

Zara wrote:

On the other hand, what did players using dwarfs expect?  

Dwarfs will always be slower (and rightfully so!) than other races and able to soak more damage and really you can not expect that to be different when you choose your race.

In case someone is that young or not that deep into fantasy and really is surprised by that there is always the option to reset since this seems to be so obvious you should notice after the first few matches so no big deal imo.

Don´t get me wrong, I am glad for anyone that enjoys the game like I do but everyone is responsible for his choices and can not expect the devs to do something complete unrealistic (yeah, talking realistic in a fantasy setting  ) and make dwarfs as fast as the other races.

I hope there will be a solution that pleases most of the dwarfs in the future though since they would have been my choice would I have gone the light way!

This is exactly my thoughts Zara but Nethack I do agree that the speed of your LI is a disadvantage Zara is right if they want to follow their "lore" they wouldn't have increased speed but since it seems they don't want to and are just working on stats now and trying to find a perfect balance then maybe they increase your stats a little bit and make your HI speed same as every other HI

Zara wrote:

On the other hand, what did players using dwarfs expect?  

Dwarfs will always be slower (and rightfully so!) than other races and able to soak more damage and really you can not expect that to be different when you choose your race.

In case someone is that young or not that deep into fantasy and really is surprised by that there is always the option to reset since this seems to be so obvious you should notice after the first few matches so no big deal imo.

Don´t get me wrong, I am glad for anyone that enjoys the game like I do but everyone is responsible for his choices and can not expect the devs to do something complete unrealistic (yeah, talking realistic in a fantasy setting  ) and make dwarfs as fast as the other races.

I hope there will be a solution that pleases most of the dwarfs in the future though since they would have been my choice would I have gone the light way!

You are aware that I didn't ask for anything, neither did any other dwarf in this thread, do you ?

Someone -not a dwarf- started this thread, with the intention of nerfing what is pretty much our only good unit. So the least you can do is suffer the opinion of someone who is actually playing this race.

To answer your question, yes I did expect dwarves to be slow. But more than anything I expected to play a race that had the same chances as everyone else. If for balance, our HI needs to break lore just a little bit than fine.

Or you know, we can have an HI which move at 10 and nerf every single unit from every other race by at least 10 points. I'll be happy with that too.

Also please don't insinuate that I'm either young or not knowledgable about the fantasy genre (I'm 34 years old with nearly 25 years of gaming including strategy tabletop, RPG pen and paper and ofc plenty video games).

Once again, dwarves are not the ones who started this thread complaining and asking for change... so...

If you're a not happy about your race or dwarf, YOU feel free to reset. Come play dwarf, it's pretty fun. And don't tell me to reset I'm perfectly happy with my race thank you.

Scaren wrote:

Zara wrote:

On the other hand, what did players using dwarfs expect?  

Dwarfs will always be slower (and rightfully so!) than other races and able to soak more damage and really you can not expect that to be different when you choose your race.

In case someone is that young or not that deep into fantasy and really is surprised by that there is always the option to reset since this seems to be so obvious you should notice after the first few matches so no big deal imo.

Don´t get me wrong, I am glad for anyone that enjoys the game like I do but everyone is responsible for his choices and can not expect the devs to do something complete unrealistic (yeah, talking realistic in a fantasy setting  ) and make dwarfs as fast as the other races.

I hope there will be a solution that pleases most of the dwarfs in the future though since they would have been my choice would I have gone the light way!

This is exactly my thoughts Zara but Nethack I do agree that the speed of your LI is a disadvantage Zara is right if they want to follow their "lore" they wouldn't have increased speed but since it seems they don't want to and are just working on stats now and trying to find a perfect balance then maybe they increase your stats a little bit and make your HI speed same as every other HI

If you nerf our HI speed, "increase our stats a little bit" (your words) won't cut it.

It's our only good unit. We have slow infantry (light and assault), really bad archers and cavalery that moves at the speed of infantry. So if you nerf HI speed I would expect at least a 20 points boost in every of our units to make up for it.

Since we are so slow, we deserve the better stats. Or maybe you know, you aknowledge that having ONE, just ONE, unit that has a decent speed isn't that big of a deal despite a small breach of lore and you concentrate on your race and what should be changed about it instead of trying to nerf mine, despite the fact that it's probably not one of the more powerful...

RuneSlayer wrote:

coughIronfortwithminicannoncough

We'll talk about that when I see it moving and shooting on the screen. For now, it's just a myth that everyone's getting excited about (except dwarves you'll notice).

IMO, the small speed boost to cav (and the nerf to max end on HI) was just fine. So honestly I'm really careful about the next change. Pretty sure, I'm going to be disappointed.

Tbqh, I really fear that a mini canon on the ironfort won't change much and that if it cost us a nerf on HI speed we'll be simply useless.

Ironfort is really fragile (10 HP) it's fun now but can't cut it against other cavs or HI. Our good unit still is the HI. So if you nerf it, honestly I have now idea what we're going to use. I don't believe the ironfort will change that.

P.S : don't get me wrong the idea of the ironfort with a mini canon is really cool. I'm just talking efficiency here.

Nethack wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

coughIronfortwithminicannoncough

We'll talk about that when I see it moving and shooting on the screen. For now, it's just a myth that everyone's getting excited about (except dwarves you'll notice).

IMO, the small speed boost to cav (and the nerf to max end on HI) was just fine. So honestly I'm really careful about the next change. Pretty sure, I'm going to be disappointed.

Tbqh, I really fear that a mini canon on the ironfort won't change much and that if it cost us a nerf on HI speed we'll be simply useless.

Ironfort is really fragile (10 HP) it's fun now but can't cut it against other cavs or HI. Our good unit still is the HI. So if you nerf it, honestly I have now idea what we're going to use. I don't believe the ironfort will change that.

P.S : don't get me wrong the idea of the ironfort with a mini canon is really cool. I'm just talking efficiency here.

Who said anything about nerfing..?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Nethack wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

coughIronfortwithminicannoncough

We'll talk about that when I see it moving and shooting on the screen. For now, it's just a myth that everyone's getting excited about (except dwarves you'll notice).

IMO, the small speed boost to cav (and the nerf to max end on HI) was just fine. So honestly I'm really careful about the next change. Pretty sure, I'm going to be disappointed.

Tbqh, I really fear that a mini canon on the ironfort won't change much and that if it cost us a nerf on HI speed we'll be simply useless.

Ironfort is really fragile (10 HP) it's fun now but can't cut it against other cavs or HI. Our good unit still is the HI. So if you nerf it, honestly I have now idea what we're going to use. I don't believe the ironfort will change that.

P.S : don't get me wrong the idea of the ironfort with a mini canon is really cool. I'm just talking efficiency here.

Who said anything about nerfing..?

The subject of this thread is about nerfing the HI...