Whats wrong with the cannons?

Why did the cannon have any changes? the cannon was strong (obviously since you have to get far in the game to get them), but they where not so good that you had to do any changes... the cannon is spreading enough as it was! sometimes the cannon can shoot 10 times just killing 2-3 from a whole unit! and if it hits perfectly it does a lot of damage, and that does not happen often!

So making the cannon worse make this game worse! i have one cannon in my A-team! it does some damage, but the HI does more then the cannon! the cannon is just an helping unit, to take the archers!

Dark cannons shoot like a Mortar! i have worked in the norwegian military for 2 years with the mortars! the longer range, the more accuracy increase!

and in PVP the cannon is not working. it spreads to much to relay on it!

I will have this changed back as it used to be!
Or we get to equip the cannon with gear, to make it better! (5-10frags for 1gear)

hope you would look closer into this!

I have one lvl 6 cannon left and I hardly ever use it, you can not up grade it in any way, It kinda sucks.

Whats the deal? No more range, come on now.

Again I am not saying everything has to be equal or fair, just give me something to look forward to after me investing in the cannon.

Come on Man!

The accuracy of your units work in rpg mechanics. Comparing to real mortars doesn't really help. If your cannon doesn't have enough missile it will miss more often. That's just how it works. Lvl it up and hope it rolls more missile than endurance    It should become a lot more accurate then.

Artillery is too strong. Thats the premisse. Its a rather tricky issue. I think artillery is not too strong, i think its too weak, but thats probably because i am an elf and our strengh is worse compared to humans and dwarves. I also notice a huge difference whether dark arti hits my hi or my li, it can be as much as 1 hi soldier or 10 li ones.
The power of artillery lies in numbers, mainly 4+ are the issue i think. They are highly cost efficient in coops, but lose efficiency in suicide when facing capped armor/endurance units. If you have seen 6-7 arti coop team you will understand. Rune mentioned the thought to limit artillery to AP (one for 1200AP) because this is apparently a problem. Artillery efficiency also depends on AI density at impact spot, which gets a lot of random and player skill to micromanage all army and look for best output for your shots ...
I would like to have artillery as a good supporting unit that offers tactical perks (like suppressing fire that slows movement) instead of being the core damage dealer of many formats. Possibly something with 3 6 9 level could be added to the supporting part should that ap limit get introduced. Maybe also accuracy or strengh.

I like the fact that the doom cannon is an indirect weapon system with allot of fragmentation. But once your maxed out on range it starts to suck, as the cycle rate of fire does not improve, nor the fragmentation.

accuracy is not the key to this issue hitting power and devastation is. Again if there is not much to look forward to why bother.

A cannon can and should be able to change a battle. That's why I go after them so hard with my CAV, even if they all get wiped out.

Piktas wrote:

The accuracy of your units work in rpg mechanics. Comparing to real mortars doesn't really help. If your cannon doesn't have enough missile it will miss more often. That's just how it works. Lvl it up and hope it rolls more missile than endurance    It should become a lot more accurate then.

did not mean they where supposed to be as accurate as mortars, but that the range make it weaker, when it should make it stronger! and in close range it should be less accurate!

i now have 18 endurance and +6 missile! but with these new updates, we have to have any control in the upgrading! its pure luck if upgrade missile with a lvl! or is the lvl up fixed already by the devs?
1 cannon per 1200 AP is a good deal! for me it could be 1 cannon per army!

this would do the trick, and not change anything about the cannon!
the cannon is the last unit you get! therefor it should be the strongest!! (or at least strong)
and they cost a lot as well :-p

please change back to old stats, and ad AP system! 1 cannon per 1200AP or 1 cannon per army!

Yeah, I would disband that artillery...    and don't confuse light artillery with dark artillery. Light artillery does more damage because it doesn't ignore obstacles.

OK! did 5 Insane right now! my cannons killed 5-10 units each round! WHY!? why should the cannon be this lame? it used to do 15-30! like my HI does!!! the cannon is the most expensive unit! that should make it a strong unit! my whole strategy is rubbish now with these cannons! now i need to work a new HI up to same lvl as my other HI, because there are no use in cannons anymore!

This make me question the mechanics in the game! what is the point making the cannon the hardest unit to get, and when you get it, its waaay worse then the ordinary HI!!!! ?????

It's a different type of unit and it has a different purpose on the battlefield...   

(my numbers)
Lvl 14 artillery = 229 AP
Lvl 14 naked HI = 234 AP
Lvl 14 godlike Hi + Hero = 550+AP

I am pretty sure the artillery will kill more than a naked HI. The efficiency is not unit dependant but tactics, Ap, gear...

I don't even bother getting cannons on the new server. On old server I used to have 3 lvl 10 with all +missile, still they made my army worse. So they just occupied my barracks space for nothing.

The new elf cannon is annoying now in PVE btw, they just go with the HI and the archers.

It is important to remember that we are all pretty savvy about tactics, this games and how to play it.

To state something that by now we all are aware of regarding that a cannon is a different type of weapon system, and bring up gear, which you know we can not use on any cannon, is hard to understand.

That is unless your being sarcastic, eh?

We are asking for improvements for equipment we already have, like the elf crossbows speed to fire when in goes up in levels, or the cannons.

We are asking for more range, cycle rate of fire, and impact.

Don't be so humble and throw in immortality as well why don't you. >_>

Okay I see that you do not agree, and that is fine.

I am still asking for improvements in range, cycle rate of fire, and impact. How is it that your crossbows and cannons can keep up with your infantry and mine can not.

Again I am just pointing out what I see when I battle.

soulthief wrote:

Okay I see that you do not agree, and that is fine.

I am still asking for improvements in range, cycle rate of fire, and impact. How is it that your crossbows and cannons can keep up with your infantry and mine can not.

Again I am just pointing out what I see when I battle.

The Light artillery are more accurate, but they need free sight!
Dark artillery are less accurate, but we could shoot over obstacles!
so all this is fair!

the thing is that cannons SHOULD be a strong unit, and an advantage for those who use it! thats why they are so hard to get!!! if the cannon should be worse then a average LI, it should be the first unit you get!
The devs should see this! i know there are ALOT guys that hate this new update!

Over to the other thing... i use gems in this game, don't regret it at all! but when updates like this comes every single week it make me question if i should stop using gems! because maybe one day these updates make my joy of the game disappear!
I feel i´m punished for doing the right thing in this game!
(less salary for the devs)

Ala wrote:

I don't even bother getting cannons on the new server.

I tend to agree with Ala.  I have two cannons (level 11 & 8 ) and I'm considering getting rid of at least one of them.

I certainly don't use them much, as they damage my own troops so badly, I rarely can get the less than 30% or 40% damage with them (and very easy to get without them).

If a unit or weapon system in this case artillery is not working well and as most of us do not use them because of their short comings does it not make sense to ask for some changes.

Come on now...

soulthief wrote:

If a unit or weapon system in this case artillery is not working well and as most of us do not use them because of their short comings does it not make sense to ask for some changes.

Come on now...

Cannon is all experience to use in a good way! you need to use the a lot before they become a strong unit for an experienced player!

i used cannon when i just got them, and i was like naaah! not interested!
Then i did som coops/PVP with Fyrr (experienced with cannons) and then i saw what they could do if you where experienced with them!

So pls don't punish me for trained in how to use a cannon!
Like you devs punished me for crafting a lot of GL gear before the update with the repair time! i have 10-20 more repairs in some of the GL before i get the new repair times! 11h X 10times are 110h repair!

I feel there been a while since a update that worked came out!

This update was so wft'ish! Yup, i'm angry so here's the WALL OF TEXT!

The only issue with cannons being seemingly OP is the damage. It should be the thing to nerf, no? Max damage or something, since pretty much only the lucky shots are annoying! Lesser damage with more consistent shots would make things better, slightly, for both sides. O.o

Now it's a joke... Was it an effort to make cannons more balanced? It failed!
Ok the majority of complaints about dark cannons that they don't need LOS so might be good in low tier pvps with almost no enemy gear and piling up, otherwise dark cannons are bad enough as it is. Light artys are too dependent on terrain to receive such a hitrate nerf and still be useful. Neither faction benefits from this particular change   it borderlined on 'why bring range when li/hi/cavs are more efficient' anyway, as earlier posters said.

My pve army is 4 archers 4 cannons, for fun mostly... Used to work well, occasional misses and crappy damage, but good enough to bring it. Lately more darkies in bc1 started using their cannons, beautiful   .

Quote :

Then i did som coops/PVP with Fyrr (experienced with cannons) and then i saw what they could do if you where experienced with them!

i might even had something to do with it ;p because they were ok to use once you find out when/how.

But the update... Pfft, even i'm close to 'why bother using cannons anymore'. So the update didn't solve anything, unless the goal was 'make people use less range units'. It's too much of a nerf!

I used to get 20-30 kills with a cannon (see, lighties, dark cannons aren't that hard hitting..), now i'm lucky to get over 10 kills! Gear pretty much negates even the lucky shots. Some of mine are at over 60 missile, high +missile doesn't help!

elf wrote:

I certainly don't use them much, as they damage my own troops so badly

err, you know that you shouldn't fire at the enemy which is engaged to your units?

darkEkok wrote:

The Light artillery are more accurate, but they need free sight!
Dark artillery are less accurate, but we could shoot over obstacles!
so all this is fair!
the thing is that cannons SHOULD be a strong unit, and an advantage for those who use it! thats why they are so hard to get!!! if the cannon should be worse then a average LI, it should be the first unit you get!
The devs should see this! i know there are ALOT guys that hate this new update!

precisely. cannons didn't have many uses as it is.

and many many people hate it, and NO ONE likes it (unless they don't use theirs at all and it's easier to vs enemy with such useless cannons, yay then!)

Seriously, such unexpected Friday nerfs... O.o

Pearl wrote:

I certainly don't use them much, as they damage my own troops so badly

Fyrr wrote:

err, you know that you shouldn't fire at the enemy which is engaged to your units?

Well sure ... but then ... they requires too much micro-management, plus have to make them sit out at least 40% of the fight ...  So therefore, I don't bring them to fights anymore.

Actually for the same reason, I've stopped bringing my Dragon Longbows to fights ... too much micro-management ... plus harder to get 30% or 40% bonus for low damage, since they damage my own troops too much¹.

---

¹Plus a "fleeing" enemy will run through my defenses, then gain morale & wipe out my Dragon Longbows anyway. Just not worth bringing them since they die so easily & hard to protect them from a "fleeing" enemy.

How exactly did your artillery performance change with this:

"The "fault" value for all artillery units has been inreased. The further the target, the bigger the "fault" value".

Was it good before or is this a thread about artillery bad in general?

Tibr wrote:

How exactly did your artillery performance change with this:

"The "fault" value for all artillery units has been inreased. The further the target, the bigger the "fault" value".

Was it good before or is this a thread about artillery bad in general?

It was not accurate before(needed to learn how to use them wisely before they become good)
But now they are rubbish from one end to an another!

OCD elf wrote:

elf wrote:

I certainly don't use them much, as they damage my own troops so badly

Fyrr wrote:

err, you know that you shouldn't fire at the enemy which is engaged to your units?

Well sure ... but then ... they requires too much micro-management, plus have to make them sit out at least 40% of the fight ...  So therefore, I don't bring them to fights anymore.

micromanagement is part of the fun, when efficient armies get too boring! You don't bring even your archers anymore perhaps? I remember your horrible ff in bc2 ;p along with hiding range in the corner and using only melee units when partner dies. You're funny.   

And since you're not even using artillery, shush. Or try arty more after this update and say if you like it.

tibr wrote:

How exactly did your artillery performance change with this:
"The "fault" value for all artillery units has been inreased. The further the target, the bigger the "fault" value".
Was it good before or is this a thread about artillery bad in general?

at least DL cannons used to hit just enough times to be worthy of using, though can't say they were good. Now they fail to hit so often they almost don't hurt enemy before he comes.

And this update is REALLY noticeable, at least if a person (like me) relies on cannons to pay for their spots in the army and not be a hindrance for a coop partner.
Since cannons aren't the most useful unit anyway, people complain in general about it too ;p

Having shortest range of all arti, me as elf, i dont notice any difference. stray shots here and there were common. The previous topic about arti was not about their accuracy, and i expected a "misfire" rather than accuracy change. In pve AI dark arti is annoying because no matter where it aims, someone gets hit ^^ But i never know what unit was targeted.