Light Cannons vs Dark Cannons

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Hi, just leaving my though about the cannons over the cover ability.

Such a game changing feature should be available to all or none.

I talk of experience:
When i face a dark army with cannons its... oh ****,****,****.
I have to use my horses to Rapidly kill them, sacrificing them sometimes.

When i face a light army with cannons its... oh nice, wasted ap.
I can just get under cover and wait for them.

This makes the dark players game a lot easier because they battle vs light army's most of the time. They don't need a 4 LI - 6 CAV army like the light players, they could field more HI. And their cav don't die so much.

Please balance this, I would prefer to have light side cannons with over the cover ability.

Posts : 511 Join date : 2013-05-08 Location : Amber Shores

It would be great if a player could choose whether he wants a stronger cannon that needs LOS or a less powerful one that ignores obstacles once he is able to recruit artillery. Make them unlockable that if you unlock one type of artillery the other one stays permanently locked.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

I think that its not about what you field but what the ai could field.

Light armys have to be more flexible (CAV) and less strong (HI).

Posts : 190 Join date : 2013-07-04

you clearly are confused....
1- dark have less accuracy so it kills less then light artillery
2-we have the firing over cover because our "ARHCERS" suck, its to compensate it.
3-i always do 6 cava 4li most profit, dont see why its bad
4-our cava are better? orc maybe. if you're dwarf maybe all better then them
5-when it comes to HI vs HI elf have a higher win ratio then all. considering both at starting stats. dwarf have very decent HI, maybe its human that you can complain about?
6- i also face dark arti and all i need is to let 1 cava to leave my stack and go get it.... morale banner on that one and/or +9 uncommon armour also helps, to the one that goes to get the artillery, and human artillery can fire from spawn with decent accuracy if the way is empty.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Not confused...

1- Ai army light cannon accuracy is zero (if you put your army under cover)
2- Every archer sucks
3- 6CAV-4LI vs mostly HI ai army is 50/50 winning chance.
4- Cav quality is not an issue here
5- HI quality is not an issue here
6- You face dark rarely, i face dark mostly. Go against 3 dark cannons and 4 archers with your cav and tell me how good is that banner and armour. And if the ai army has cav to chase your cav, good luck.

I Clearly prefer going after LOS cannon vs Over Cannon.

Posts : 289 Join date : 2013-06-21

Rapidinhas wrote:: Not confused...

1- Ai army light cannon accuracy is zero (if you put your army under cover)
2- Every archer sucks
3- 6CAV-4LI vs mostly HI ai army is 50/50 winning chance.
4- Cav quality is not an issue here
5- HI quality is not an issue here
6- You face dark rarely, i face dark mostly. Go against 3 dark cannons and 4 archers with your cav and tell me how good is that banner and armour. And if the ai army has cav to chase your cav, good luck.

I Clearly prefer going after LOS cannon vs Over Cannon.

i avoid gw solos because of dark side cannons, but usually i just pull my army back as much as possible while cav takes out the cannons. on the other hand, i never stopped a cav charge with doom cannons . still i dont know why all lights have such type of cannons, it does seem unbalanced

Posts : 190 Join date : 2013-07-04

the person who complains about everything about a race clearly has no idea how to mix units, complains about the entire faction..... well lets just say i would tell him to uninstall the game (if it was downloadable)

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

Dark cannons also deal much less damage. Going well armored helps a lot because their true strengh is not changing with gear score matching. Against capped units dark cannons may scratch HI just a little, while light artillery will obliterate it much better. Cant be sure about racial differences but i think the cannons (human and dwarf) are slightly better than the bolt launcher (elf).

The only real challenge while taking down dark arti is enemy cavalery, or mercs/hi right next to it.

If i had free choice i would stay with the stronger line of sight artillery.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Bblazer wrote:: the person who complains about everything about a race clearly has no idea how to mix units, complains about the entire faction..... well lets just say i would tell him to uninstall the game (if it was downloadable)

I don't complain about everything...
I just think that the cannons should have the same ability (LOS or OVER), because this way you are playing two different games if you chose light or dark.

I don't think the AI takes advantage of the higher LOS killing power and therefore it is inferior opponent. My life would be easier against them.

The LI,LIA,HI,CAV,SU status are a matter of balancing and sometimes the devs changes them to equal gameplay.
I'm not asking to have the undead unbreakable, the dwarven armour and the elven speed...I'm just saying the cannons shouldn't be so diferent.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Tibr wrote:: Dark cannons also deal much less damage. Going well armored helps a lot because their true strengh is not changing with gear score matching. Against capped units dark cannons may scratch HI just a little, while light artillery will obliterate it much better. Cant be sure about racial differences but i think the cannons (human and dwarf) are slightly better than the bolt launcher (elf).

The only real challenge while taking down dark arti is enemy cavalery, or mercs/hi right next to it.

If i had free choice i would stay with the stronger line of sight artillery.

I can see that the grass on the other side is better...

Nevertheless, if you face light AI army with cannons you can charge or get behind cover.
If you face dark AI army with cannons you have to charge.
That way you have to setup an charging army and charge because an dark cannon can only take 20% of your units per hit, it's not much but it can change the curse of the battle because of the morale hit.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

nathor wrote:: i avoid gw solos because of dark side cannons, but usually i just pull my army back as much as possible while cav takes out the cannons. on the other hand, i never stopped a cav charge with doom cannons . still i dont know why all lights have such type of cannons, it does seem unbalanced

It does seem unbalanced, my point exactly...

Posts : 782 Join date : 2013-07-19

Rapidinhas wrote:

nathor wrote:: i avoid gw solos because of dark side cannons, but usually i just pull my army back as much as possible while cav takes out the cannons. on the other hand, i never stopped a cav charge with doom cannons . still i dont know why all lights have such type of cannons, it does seem unbalanced

It does seem unbalanced, my point exactly...

As a dark player, I find the light artillery to be often frustrating. If I bring any HI I can bet I'll be stuck with the smallest thing to hide behind because of my slow HI. And your ability to maneuver troops is almost 0 while they are in the middle of battling, so they will gradually inch out as enemies flee and before long, the light artillery can hit every single one of my troops and likely cost me the game since just a one good shot can take out a huge chunk of my army. I have two choices in this scenario: I can charge with cav and risk losing because I have less defensive power, or I can not charge, and risk my men running out to their apocolypse. That said, I still feel like the artillery are poorly designed. It's a rock-paper-scissors scenario, which I always dislike in games where you can't actually reply to your enemy's army (during the battle, by building different units). This leads to me just hating artillery in general.

It goes something like this:
possibility 1: Light brings artillery, has good open range. Light wins the pvp no problem because the enemy's HI and LI/LIA can't reach anything before their army is decimated. If dark brought cav(s), defending the light artillery from them will probably not be too hard, depending on terrain and number of cavs.
possibility 2: Light brings artillery, but so does dark. Terrain is heavy. Dark shoots lights artillery down quickly and forces light's HI and LI to charge a long distance while wittling them down. Dark wins hand down and essentially renders the light artillery wasted ap.
possibility 3: Dark brings artillery but light does not, terrain is heavy or sparse, doesn't much matter. Dark artillery forces an engagement from light but luck determines whether the damage will actually be enough to pull a win in for dark.

I don't like rock-paper-scissors in a strategy game. Razz

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

I have yet to play a pvp with cannons, i think the LOS is better for that situation because it is a superior cannon.
Your PVP experience is superior to mine, I didn't know that the terrain imposes an winner if cannons are involved.

There is an advantage to light side on PVP with cannons.
I think there is an advantage on dark side on PVE.

It would be better to just give both type of cannons to both sides and everybody would be (un)happy.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2013-07-12 Location : Vardenfall

Bobba wrote:: As a dark player, I find the light artillery to be often frustrating. If I bring any HI I can bet I'll be stuck with the smallest thing to hide behind because of my slow HI. And your ability to maneuver troops is almost 0 while they are in the middle of battling, so they will gradually inch out as enemies flee and before long, the light artillery can hit every single one of my troops and likely cost me the game since just a one good shot can take out a huge chunk of my army. I have two choices in this scenario: I can charge with cav and risk losing because I have less defensive power, or I can not charge, and risk my men running out to their apocolypse. That said, I still feel like the artillery are poorly designed. It's a rock-paper-scissors scenario, which I always dislike in games where you can't actually reply to your enemy's army (during the battle, by building different units). This leads to me just hating artillery in general.

It goes something like this:
possibility 1: Light brings artillery, has good open range. Light wins the pvp no problem because the enemy's HI and LI/LIA can't reach anything before their army is decimated. If dark brought cav(s), defending the light artillery from them will probably not be too hard, depending on terrain and number of cavs.
possibility 2: Light brings artillery, but so does dark. Terrain is heavy. Dark shoots lights artillery down quickly and forces light's HI and LI to charge a long distance while wittling them down. Dark wins hand down and essentially renders the light artillery wasted ap.
possibility 3: Dark brings artillery but light does not, terrain is heavy or sparse, doesn't much matter. Dark artillery forces an engagement from light but luck determines whether the damage will actually be enough to pull a win in for dark.

I don't like rock-paper-scissors in a strategy game.

What level Artillery are you all facing? Or how many? My level 4 Arty is lucky if (firing for as long as my archers do, against the tightest packed bunch of enemy units in range) it gets 15 kills in a fight.

While my FAR more maneuverable, slightly useful in melee archers usually get 25 kills each (unless I'm up against lots of Mercs, Cavs, and arty) in the same battles.

From my knowledge of Dark arty, they tend to destroy about 20% of my LI or HI alike before my army even engages the enemy- the loss of troops isn't an issue, but the loss of Moral is vital; given that it often causes NEARLY insta-flee situations. And, unlike darkies, I can't hide behind cover. My only hope if there are lots of HI arty (4+) is to have Cavs and NOT GET STUCK- if my cavs get stuck on the enemy LI/LIA/Archers, my Cavs will be destroyed.

10 movement speed HI is slow compared to 5 movement speed Arty?

Subject: Re: Light Cannons vs Dark Cannons Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:51 am

Tibr wrote:: Dark cannons also deal much less damage. Going well armored helps a lot because their true strengh is not changing with gear score matching. Against capped units dark cannons may scratch HI just a little, while light artillery will obliterate it much better. Cant be sure about racial differences but i think the cannons (human and dwarf) are slightly better than the bolt launcher (elf).

The only real challenge while taking down dark arti is enemy cavalery, or mercs/hi right next to it.

If i had free choice i would stay with the stronger line of sight artillery.

1. the darks have same dmg as lights

2. Sure we have more accuracy but dark players allways hide in back of terrain and by the time you have them locked *(their arti) yours is basically dead 60% of the time

so I would rather all races shoot over terrain. it will reduce complaining and make it more fare for the lights But then if they did this

make a 2nd artillery for every race that you can get (darks would be like the light ones and the light ones like the darks) or make all artillery have the same stats Razz

that would also be better

also please stop complaining about this subject Because both are actually matched if there was no terrain

Subject: Re: Light Cannons vs Dark Cannons Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:53 am

Rapidinhas wrote:: I have yet to play a pvp with cannons, i think the LOS is better for that situation because it is a superior cannon.
Your PVP experience is superior to mine, I didn't know that the terrain imposes an winner if cannons are involved.

There is an advantage to light side on PVP with cannons.
I think there is an advantage on dark side on PVE.

It would be better to just give both type of cannons to both sides and everybody would be (un)happy.

your wrong -_- pvping the darks have the upper hand and in pve the lights have an upper hand

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Bblazer wrote:: the person who complains about everything about a race clearly has no idea how to mix units, complains about the entire faction..... well lets just say i would tell him to uninstall the game (if it was downloadable)

After more thinking about this LOS vs FAR issue... I'm convinced that the ai LOS cannons is an unfair advantage to dark side.
Light cannons are mega archers and ai uses them poorly, FAR cannons are way more dangerous on ai hands.
Light players get more casualties and more loses just because the cannons are so diferent.

The balancing possibilities are to take out the cannons of the ai armys or have them leveled. The last option will have a lot of criticism because light players have their armys setup around LOS cannons and dark players will start complaining about FAR cannons (like me).

Is someone of the dev team seeing this?

Posts : 22 Join date : 2013-09-29

Williumwall wrote:: your wrong -_- pvping the darks have the upper hand and in pve the lights have an upper hand

No, I'm half wrong Wink

.
Dark have the upper hand on PVE because they don't have to face FAR cannons.
They don't need to rush.

Posts : 830 Join date : 2013-08-23 Location : Australia

The answer to this would definitely be having two kinds of cannons for every race.

One that requires LOS (direct fire) and is more damaging, and another that doesn't require LOS (indirect fire) and is not as powerful.

Right now the Indirect firing cannons are far superior. The reduction in damage potential no-where near makes up for the tactical advantage they provide, completely eliminating any kind of terrain cover.

Either have two different types of Artillery available for each race, OR put some kind of option on the Artillery that allows you to choose its firing type BEFORE the battle. (Unit selection screen).