New Reward System - Economy - Gear - Battle Difficulty (Modes)

Speaking of rewards, what exactly do you mean? Gold or ressources or both.
Does generals performance apply to ressource rewards or only gold ?
Also do we always get more ressources on nightmare than on hard?

From what i understand so far: Advanced player takes 7 lvl10 units to battle having a ballanced army with HI, Arti, LI all in rare gear. A relatively new player who invested in gold chests takes 7 lvl5 units, all LI/Lia with epics resulting in same AP to battle. Both earn the same.

No benefit from levels despite it took weeks of farm, no motivation to lvl up units. Extra levels are neither making the game easier nor more profitable, even the opposite. The AI GS per unit depends on its level (lvl6 29GS, lvl10 60GS). If a player brings lvl 10 units the AI puts lvl 12 units against him that have enough gear score to be almost fully epic geared, and the players have to equip their troops with higher quality gear in order to compete with the AI units. Better items cost more to maintain and reforge resulting in lower income per battle. All in one i am not earning more with lvl 10 units than with lvl 6 units, i am earning less.
I see dire need to keep bonus rewards for higher lvl armies to hold that ballance at all.

Also consider the current drop rates for gl or rares are painfully low. But encouraging players to go to higher difficulties and thus using better quality items will consume a lot of frags to craft and reforge. Optionally it would be nice to see a "tier"-like system introduced for PVE that will add drop/xp/cp with the lvl of units the player fields.

tommarkc wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Not possible. Normal mode should spawn AI units of -2 to 0 levels compared to the level of the player's units. Are you using Mercenaries? If so, what level is he and what type?

I screenshooted a random battle: http:      //s15.postimg.org/4zqw28rvf/battle.jpg

Looking closely at the picture, you can see 14 enemy units, lvl 5-7, while mine are archers lvl 7 and HI lvl 6. I maybe had mistaken about lvl higher units, because i mostly play CO-OP ;)But its really hard to fight that army, now youre giving them gear too, so should I gear up to rares to win (if i will have luck), while rewards will not cover even heals and repairs? Or play easy mode, and maybe get 200 profit for 15 mins of work? Or should I play COOPs and do all the work almost every time for maybe 300 profit? I think it will be more profitable to just gather resources from buildings and trading. Battle wont be profitable anyway. And when any1 say to me, battle shouldnt be profitable anyway (like in RL), I say to them it is an quest in BC with title: "Who said war cannot be profitable? (or something like that)

  You are in with 4 Ranged units and 5 Heavy Infantries against an army fielding mostly Ranged units and you find this battle difficulty? This is like a stroll in the park....

Who said that rewards will not cover heals and repairs?

Battle will always be profitable IF the General minimizes his casualties, has geared units, and chooses a difficulty that is relevant to the level of his units.

To give you a few examples:

Hard will generate 750 - 1100 gold, Nightmare 1200 - 1700...

Now, consider the fact that healing costs will change as well and the picture is clear.

War is always profitable...

nice changes
Does it mean that finally Undeads will have the same amount of rewards like rest?

Tibr wrote:

Speaking of rewards, what exactly do you mean? Gold or ressources or both.
Does generals performance apply to ressource rewards or only gold ?
Also do we always get more ressources on nightmare than on hard?

Gold and resources. The higher the difficulty the higher the value of reward and the more types of resources given. However, resources rewards are lower than gold to compensate for the repairing costs and healing costs.

The General's performance will generate a gold reward only.

Yes, you always get more resources on nightmare than on hard.

Tibr wrote:

From what i understand so far: Advanced player takes 7 lvl10 units to battle having a ballanced army with HI, Arti, LI all in rare gear. A relatively new player who invested in gold chests takes 7 lvl5 units, all LI/Lia with epics resulting in same AP to battle. Both earn the same. scratch

Do you consider both armies to be equally efficient on the battlefield?

First of all, the advanced player has units with higher level special abilities (2nd level special abilities) while the new player has lower special abilities (1st level special abilities).

Secondly, the GS for a level 5 unit is 44, while for a level 10 unit it is 135.

Thirdly, 5 levels difference means +15 stats bonuses for free for the advanced player and -15 stats for the new user.

Although the base value of the reward will be the same, due to the fact they field the same number of units and they play on the same difficulty, the NET PROFIT, which is REWARD + Potential General's Performance - (Healing Cost + Repairing Cost) is what really matters. I bet 5.000 Gems that the advanced player will have a higher profit margin than the new player.

Tibr wrote:

If a player brings lvl 10 units the AI puts lvl 12 units against him that have enough gear score to be almost fully epic geared, and the players have to equip their troops with higher quality gear in order to compete with the AI units. Better items cost more to maintain and reforge resulting in lower income per battle. All in one i am not earning more with lvl 10 units than with lvl 6 units, i am earning less. :scratch:I see dire need to keep bonus rewards for higher lvl armies to hold that ballance at all.

Not necessarily true.

1. There will be a chance related to whether an AI unit will be geared or not.
2. The GS of the AI unit is always much lower than the normal GS max per level of the unit.
3. The repairing costs have been included in the rewards. Now, if a General goes with Godlike gear on Easy, then he will probably have EXTREMELY easy victories but with no profit.
4. As the player's units level up, he can then choose to do more difficult battles in order to increase his reward and subsequently his profit.

Tibr wrote:

Also consider the current drop rates for gl or rares are painfully low. But encouraging players to go to higher difficulties and thus using better quality items will consume a lot of frags to craft and reforge. Optionally it would be nice to see a "tier"-like system introduced for PVE that will add drop/xp/cp with the lvl of units the player fields.

The drop rate for Nightmare battle is higher than the other modes, however only a small percentage of the players is actually doing nightmare battles.

kuba_ wrote:

nice changes
Does it mean that finally Undeads will have the same amount of rewards like rest?

It will definitely be a more balanced reward system for everyone.

RuneSlayer wrote:

  You are in with 4 Ranged units and 5 Heavy Infantries against an army fielding mostly Ranged units and you find this battle difficulty? This is like a stroll in the park....

Fighting naked till now, yes. When my HI are overhelmed with undeads my units flee. And if one breaks, others break too. And with the speed of undead a game is finished fast

RuneSlayer wrote:

Who said that rewards will not cover heals and repairs?

Profit should cover all expenses + some profit, depends on effort. Time is money, so fighting for not enough rewards isnt profitable

RuneSlayer wrote:

Battle will always be profitable IF the General minimizes his casualties, has geared units, and chooses a difficulty that is relevant to the level of his units.

If you want to minimalize your casualties, you must gear up more. Gearing up more means more repairs, so cannot fight so often. And if you gear up, you give even more money to repairs than it will be needed to heals.

RuneSlayer wrote:

To give you a few examples:

Hard will generate 750 - 1100 gold, Nightmare 1200 - 1700...

Now, consider the fact that healing costs will change as well and the picture is clear.

War is always profitable...

LOL I forgot about hard mode, I knew something is missing here xD
But I was getting 900-1100 at Hard, and 2000-2200 at NM, so difference is enormous. Because of that I hope that for Hard mode will be needed 2x less money spent for gear than on NM, otherwise it means NM players will completely rule in the game.

So yes, I somewhat forgot about Hard mode xD
And we will see what will come from it all...

tommarkc wrote:

Profit should cover all expenses + some profit, depends on effort. Time is money, so fighting for not enough rewards isnt profitable Wink

Of course, and it does. However, the current reward system was way too profitable at a point that it was ridiculous... You cannot have resource buildings generating 350 gold per hour and win a battle and generate 4000 gold. We know that some players will complain, but it has to change so the economy can normalize again.

tommarkc wrote:

If you want to minimalize your casualties, you must gear up more. Gearing up more means more repairs, so cannot fight so often. And if you gear up, you give even more money to repairs than it will be needed to heals.

Very correct. It also means that you need to choose what gear you will use, how many units you will take with you and which difficulty is better for the level of your units and your skills as a player. Items have a durability and a repair cost. Everything is transparent. The more you play, the more you gain, but durability drops. It's up to the General to find what is most profitable for him.

so rewards for pvp remains. It would be very good to raise rewards so fighting with gl items would be profitable, but i am pretty sure that this could be exploited by players. Its not that easy to find good formula for pvp rewards. Good luck with that  

You are bombarding us with info today ^^

Rune wrote:

1. There will be a chance related to whether an AI unit will be geared or not.
2. The GS of the AI unit is always much lower than the normal GS max per level of the unit.
3. The repairing costs have been included in the rewards. Now, if a General goes with Godlike gear on Easy, then he will probably have EXTREMELY easy victories but with no profit.
4. As the player's units level up, he can then choose to do more difficult battles in order to increase his reward and subsequently his profit.

1. Call for more tactics, probably ok if enemy gear is displayed. What is the chance?
2. Filling own GS atm is a big waste, even impossible. I could equip my lvl 12 cavalery unit with 4 godlikes. It would even already work with lvl 10-11 units using average godlikes. And i am not alone if i say using godlikes in pve is out of proportion unless you are a regular gold chest customer. Too expensive to use even more expensive to reforge and the time they take to repair is also immense. Even epics are considered hard to maintain efficiently and one rarely sees more than one epic per unit.

It sounds like lvl 16 AI units will be capped in many stats, i do see necessity to field epic/godlikes for future nightmares just to be able to compete once players take lvl 12 units to battle. I see nightmare players becoming endangered species but time will tell. Ballancing economy by having everyone play lower difficulties is tough. How about keeping a "low % gear score matching system" as it is right now but lower the max GS AI units can field? Just so the rare-equipped players are still able to win nightmares without having to suffer the high unit level disadvantage? (Just having a look on kuba or dakota with their lvl 15 units makes me shiver).

Alternatively an option to make epic/gl gear more efficient in pve would be much appreciated. Such would be higher durability or less durability loss upon repair or increased drop rate for frags.

How soon are you going to implement these changes?

Tibr wrote:

1. Call for more tactics, probably ok if enemy gear is displayed. What is the chance?

Depends on the battle difficulty.

Tibr wrote:

2. Filling own GS atm is a big waste, even impossible. I could equip my lvl 12 cavalery unit with 4 godlikes. It would even already work with lvl 10-11 units using average godlikes. And i am not alone if i say using godlikes in pve is out of proportion unless you are a regular gold chest customer. Too expensive to use even more expensive to reforge and the time they take to repair is also immense. Even epics are considered hard to maintain efficiently and one rarely sees more than one epic per unit.

I am with you on this. I couldn't agree more. The game gives you the tools to equip your units with whatever you want. It is up to you to decide what gear you will use. Would you use a fully equipped unit with Godlikes on Normal difficulty? That would be a waste considering that the gold reward for Normal ranges between 450 - 650. Go on Insane or Suicide difficulties though (Yeap, they are coming too.. ) and it is a different story with rewards ranging from 2250 - 2750 per battle. Again, consider the fact that healing costs have been reduced and that drop rates for Insane and Suicide will be significantly higher.

Tibr wrote:

It sounds like lvl 16 AI units will be capped in many stats, i do see necessity to field epic/godlikes for future nightmares just to be able to compete once players take lvl 12 units to battle.

Not necessarily. As I said, AI units will never be able to use 100% of their level GS.

Tibr wrote:

I see nightmare players becoming endangered species but time will tell. Ballancing economy by having everyone play lower difficulties is tough.

Not necessarily, as rewards on higher difficulties are well...higher than lower difficulties.

Tibr wrote:

Just so the rare-equipped players are still able to win nightmares without having to suffer the high unit level disadvantage?

Who said that you need Godlike items to win Nightmare?

Also, you keep on forgetting that the "Fragments Transmutation" will come soon. Players will be able to combine fragments in an attempt to get a higher rarity fragment.

Changes should go live tomorrow...

I have got one more issue. Exp for killing units. I belive (its imposible to check that) killing 15 lvl LI give you more exp points than killing 15 lvl ART or 15 lvl CAV. Killing 15 lvl undead HI give you more exp points than killing 15 lvl DL HI (which is wrong because they have the same firepower).

What if exp points depend on ap unit (with gear)?

Units on NM lvls would give more exp points than others (another advantage). I know that they have higher lvls and give more exp points but compare to naked units (or lower gs) they give too little exp points (in my opinion).

It would also benefit pvp games or at least winner of pvp match

Tibr wrote:

It sounds like lvl 16 AI units will be capped in many stats, i do see necessity to field epic/godlikes for future nightmares just to be able to compete once players take lvl 12 units to battle.

Rune wrote:

Not necessarily. As I said, AI units will never be able to use 100% of their level GS.

I am refering to your data here, 100% gs is something one cannot fill on lvl 16 unit right now. Taking the reduced value.

Rune wrote:

In Hard difficulty an AI unit of level 6 may or may not have gear of around 29 GS.

On Nightmare difficulty, an AI unit of level 10 may or may not have gear of around 60 GS.

Now estimating the GS on lvl 16 to 120 GS which is enough for some godlikes and epics already. And along the 16x3 stats it would usually result in some capped stats if rolled randomly.

With the additional difficulties hmm that changes a lot, looking forward to that. I had the feeling transmutation was said to consume gems to be effective.

Tibr wrote:

I am refering to your data here, 100% gs is something one cannot fill on lvl 16 unit right now. Taking the reduced value.

Actually by GS, I mean Gear Score, not Godlikes.

Tibr wrote:

I had the feeling transmutation was said to consume gems to be effective.

Transmutation might be an unlockable feature with Gems only. Paid once, have it forever.

Also, Gems can be used to increase success and the possibility of a higher rarity fragment, but Gems are not required for every transmutation. Gold is still king. (Well, at least after the change in the reward system...)

Obviously, but if you want to fill 120+ AP with 4 items those have to be epics or better on average
The best rare that i have is 21 AP, perfect rare may be 22-23. You get the point. Average rare 15AP, epic 25 AP, godlike 40 AP.

Tibr wrote:

Obviously, but if you want to fill 120+ AP with 4 items those have to be epics or better on average
The best rare that i have is 21 AP, perfect rare may be 22-23. You get the point. Average rare 15AP, epic 25 AP, godlike 40 AP.

True, but I meant that the poor AI will never be able to utilize the full capacity (and even less) of its GS per level.

Hmm...

- More Gems needed to buy resources
- Market prices from resources are going straight to 1:3
- Quantity from offers on the market are decreasing from day to day
- Now lower rewards from battles

 

9999 wrote:

More Gems needed to buy resources

We felt that 85 Gems for 85.000 resources was not only ruining the economy, but it was also stupid, considering the fact that a new player would have to pay again 85 Gems for 900 resources. Currently, there exist minimums and when they are exceeded then an exchange ratio does the work. Fairer for everybody. If nothing else, we were giving resources with a large discount for a loooong time. To whoever bought resources with that discount...We salute you... !

9999 wrote:

- Market prices from resources are going straight to 1:3
- Quantity from offers on the market are decreasing from day to day

The economy starts to regulate itself automatically. Resources are scarcer and therefore they become more valuable.

9999 wrote:

- Now lower rewards from battles

Not necessarily. However, 4.000 gold per battle won't be a possibility anymore.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Transmutation might be an unlockable feature with Gems only. Paid once, have it forever.

If not secret, what will be the price for it?

Not a secret at all. It hasn't been decided yet though.

I like the idea of changing up the rewards based on general performance and having higher difficulties give a consistent increase in rewards.

With that being said, I think you are really hitting the older/more experienced players hard. Getting 4k per battle and 2k of certain resources may be too much for the economy, but a top 100 player should get more resources per battle by a significant amount than a player like me who just unlocked cavs.

Also I have to agree with previous posters, your logic is slightly flawed.... higher level units are worse to field in this new system. I understand you say that they should take less losses but they wont because the AI scales to the lvl of YOUR units. A lvl 15 HI vs my lvl 8 HI will do the exact same against an enemy lvl 17 HI and a lvl 10 HI respectively.

Before when AP determined rewards, the lvl 15 has a higher AP value giving more rewards.... now they are equal. This does not make sense at all and should really be looked into. If the AI scale off of the level of our units then, some reward needs to come from bringing higher lvl units then just saying they will be more efficient....... That clearly will not be true given the current battle system.

Would like to see Arti fixed for PvP, including terrain generation. So dumb that light with arti will always lose with dark vs arti with the current terrain generation 90% of the time.

not more then 459 0_o hopefully

and how about increasing res from battle?, that way no need to beg people on market for lower prices, i i probably wont care even if market prices go 1:100

and how about putting rewards for the in game acheivements.. eg archlord title gives you "xyz"

and we are waiting for special units .. need info

and for some reason all DL players think that our LI ability doesnt work can you check that? and will there be in future an option that can change race or even choose ability for LI? or will there be different LI i can choose? maybe like special units is 2 new units one of them LI and whatever the other one? to be honest i tried our li vs elf li and it can barely do anything. even with the +30 melee.. (both were same lvl mine killed 6 and fled and died he kill 20 both naked..in pvp)

thxs in advanced keep it up!

RuneSlayer wrote:

Tibr wrote:

If i field 10 lias or 5lias and 2hi+3cavs the reward is the same? Also if i take 10 lvl 8 units or 10 lvl 12 units the reward also is the same? That sounds unjust.

Yes, the reward will be the same.

It is not unjust if you consider the fact that you can choose the battle difficulty.

More powerful army, means less casualties which lead to higher rewards.

In fact, it is not going to be very profitable to use high level units at low level battle difficulties.

The higher the battle difficulty, the higher the rewards. It is up to the General to decide on which difficulty he will play and what army he will field.

You've got to be kidding, right?  We put a lot of effort into levelling our units, buying +xp items, upgrading guild regions etc but you're making all our effort useless with this change.  How can it be more profitable to field higher level units when the AI matches (and maybe betters) those you field? The results in terms of casualties will be same regardless of the level of units you field. You are making it pointless to invest in levelling units. I'm not talking about fielding high level units on low difficulties either, I'm talking about the difference between, say, level 10 units and level 14 units on NM.  There should be a noticeable difference in the rewards, given the huge xp difference involved.

Gorlak wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Tibr wrote:

If i field 10 lias or 5lias and 2hi+3cavs the reward is the same? Also if i take 10 lvl 8 units or 10 lvl 12 units the reward also is the same? That sounds unjust.

Yes, the reward will be the same.

It is not unjust if you consider the fact that you can choose the battle difficulty.

More powerful army, means less casualties which lead to higher rewards.

In fact, it is not going to be very profitable to use high level units at low level battle difficulties.

The higher the battle difficulty, the higher the rewards. It is up to the General to decide on which difficulty he will play and what army he will field.

You've got to be kidding, right?  We put a lot of effort into levelling our units, buying +xp items, upgrading guild regions etc but you're making all our effort useless with this change.  How can it be more profitable to field higher level units when the AI matches (and maybe betters) those you field? The results in terms of casualties will be same regardless of the level of units you field. You are making it pointless to invest in levelling units. I'm not talking about fielding high level units on low difficulties either, I'm talking about the difference between, say, level 10 units and level 14 units on NM.  There should be a noticeable difference in the rewards, given the huge xp difference involved.

this is something i still did not quite understand... in the new system, how exactly the ai unit levels scale to our levels and the ap we bring to battle if at all.

it seems that if we bring 10 li or 4li 6cav, the rewards will be the same... but the fight will be easier with 4li ,6 cav. which is puzzling. this is only possible if the enemy difficulty does not scale to the ap we take to battle, including their levels.

other thing i would like some info is the tech levels. tech levels in this new system make the battle easier if their ap does not increase the difficulty. it might be that the new system will be a cream puff difficulty to veterans and as they promised, its the new difficulty levels that will bring the challenge. i wait and see.

I personally think you're going to make the problem worse.

The problem, as I see it, is a lack of resources. By shutting down the people buying (and then selling) resources with gems, you have reduced the supply.


Reducing gold will, over time, lower the price, but it will also slow the game even more. It does nothing to curb demand created by ever-higher levels, lack of new players and guild resource sinks. If I had to bet, I would put my money on a significant number of people leaving the game before prices ever stabilize.