NM seems ridiculous now

ridiculous When I get 4 Dwarven HI all above level 10 it seems without gl's I am doomed. Have lost mostly to elves in nm because of their archers. I'm not saying make it less Nightmare mode but you should make the levels more according to each player. http://prntscr.com/1hgjax

I'm fine with NM, if they make it easy now it will be even easier when our units will reach lvl 15

Quote :

I'm fine with NM, if they make it easy now it will be even easier when our units will reach lvl 15

Not if they are capped at your own highest level, but if at all max level should be your highest troop +2 and only after level 10 is reached. Facing level 10s should always be possible.

They changed NM so it once again lives up to its name (let´s be honest, the old NM was not worthy of the name), but they should not tone it down too much again if at all! It is hard at times but if you don´t have a really extreme roll of troops which is still rare you should be able to adapt your strategy and be doing fine with only a slight increase in casualties.

Edit: Before I am misunderstood, I do not ask for that change, just trying to give options to talk about.

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I agree with this.

Also, sometimes the enemy will bring in 3 or 4 HI and the difficulty will be exponentially higher. In these cases I feel like reward should be increased as well.

it's not enough hard to be considered a nightmare, devs forgot to add regional bonus units to AI army

Bobba wrote:

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I agree with this.

Also, sometimes the enemy will bring in 3 or 4 HI and the difficulty will be exponentially higher. In these cases I feel like reward should be increased as well.

That is probably the best thing to do is to increase the reward but don't know if they would increase rewards because four HI were brought in.

I like the new NM, its actually hard now.

Before the change, it could be done with half ass gear like common and farmed continuously.

Don't know about other, but now I actually have to pay much more attention... and bring better stuff like rare at least (until our troops are lvl 15). And even then with the repair cost it's not so simple to gain money.

Scaren, you're not the only one finding it harder now. ^^

Scaren wrote:

Bobba wrote:

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I agree with this.

Also, sometimes the enemy will bring in 3 or 4 HI and the difficulty will be exponentially higher. In these cases I feel like reward should be increased as well.

That is probably the best thing to do is to increase the reward but don't know if they would increase rewards because four HI were brought in.

I don't know if they will either but I've lost three (THREE!) nightmares in a row thanks to large numbers of HI and I even brought my awesome GL HI armor to one of them and still lost! It's sickening that the amount of difficulty can vary so much when the amount of reward doesn't vary at all depending on the difficulty. Honestly, how does it make sense that reward is based on the units we bring anyways, shouldn't it be based on the enemies we destroy? It doesn't make much sense that we would be rewarded based on how many cav we bring into battle... (seeing as cavs have by far the highest rewards).

I'm wondering if quests have anything to do with it because I HAVE won NM on the new difficulty a few times. But now I lose 3 times in a row trying to do two quests, and I can't take it anymore. I feel like I'm playing the lottery every time I enter a NM match, and not in a good way.

Devs, if your goal was only to make NM mode "slightly" more challenging, you way overshot it. Still, if you made the rewards more on par with new insanely hard difficulty I would probably not mind quite so much.

And Nethack, I could never "farm" nightmare continuously. I've always had a hefty 10-20 minutes healing session between NM's even before the difficulty increase. Also, reward for NM is barely higher than coop... If you are winning the new NM consistently in only rares I want your rares, and all your units...and a video so I can see your strategy. Because for me, my victory or failure seems to depend only on the units the AI decides to pick for me to fight...

I'm quite a gripe today, sorry.

Bobba wrote:

And Nethack, I could never "farm" nightmare continuously. I've always had a hefty 10-20 minutes healing session between NM's even before the difficulty increase. Also, reward for NM is barely higher than coop... If you are winning the new NM consistently in only rares I want your rares, and all your units...and a video so I can see your strategy. Because for me, my victory or failure seems to depend only on the units the AI decides to pick for me to fight...

- I'm pretty sure lots of people can actually win consistently against the new NM (and way better than I do). No idea why you think it's not possible.

- On the subject of gear, it all depends if you're willing to sacrifice to craft. I try to have all my rare "perfects" (like +10 melee/+10 str for a weapon) which means breaking and recrafting a lot. But it costs a lot in other areas like building / research. So yeah they're pretty good. Not nearly all perfect but above average probably. The max is still +10/+10...

- It's still possible to beat NM naked or with low gear like uncommon. Depends on the lvl of your troops. Just won't be without loss (at least for me).

- Now I farm hard a lot more. It's better for money. IMO, it's a mistake to keep trying NM if you don't win money doing it. Better to accept it and wait till the troops level above 10.

- As for strategy, it changes every game, depending on terrain, units your bring and ofc ennemy units. I have a few basic formations that I adapt. I don't think one video of one game will show anything. It's the small decisions that change from game to game. But it's possible to beat it with "really bad" units like when I bring my 2 archers (<- and that's bad lol). It just isn't so profitable. So better farm hard, level up and wait.

Bobba wrote:

I'm quite a gripe today, sorry.

It happens. Lots of ppl were able to farm NM before. Like I said, I like it more now... it's called nightmare so it should be hard. But I have no hard feeling against people who have a different opinion.

EDIT : just wanted to test it again after your post... so I just did one with the worst troops possible and bad gear. 3 LI / 2 LIA / 2 archers / 2 noob cavs (no HI at all on my side). Gear max uncommon. Won 1600 gp, healing cost 1k. Ennemy had 2 HIs with good lvl.

Bobba wrote:

Scaren wrote:

Bobba wrote:

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I agree with this.

Also, sometimes the enemy will bring in 3 or 4 HI and the difficulty will be exponentially higher. In these cases I feel like reward should be increased as well.

That is probably the best thing to do is to increase the reward but don't know if they would increase rewards because four HI were brought in.

I don't know if they will either but I've lost three (THREE!) nightmares in a row thanks to large numbers of HI and I even brought my awesome GL HI armor to one of them and still lost! It's sickening that the amount of difficulty can vary so much when the amount of reward doesn't vary at all depending on the difficulty. Honestly, how does it make sense that reward is based on the units we bring anyways, shouldn't it be based on the enemies we destroy? It doesn't make much sense that we would be rewarded based on how many cav we bring into battle... (seeing as cavs have by far the highest rewards).

I'm wondering if quests have anything to do with it because I HAVE won NM on the new difficulty a few times. But now I lose 3 times in a row trying to do two quests, and I can't take it anymore. I feel like I'm playing the lottery every time I enter a NM match, and not in a good way.

Devs, if your goal was only to make NM mode "slightly" more challenging, you way overshot it. Still, if you made the rewards more on par with new insanely hard difficulty I would probably not mind quite so much.

And Nethack, I could never "farm" nightmare continuously. I've always had a hefty 10-20 minutes healing session between NM's even before the difficulty increase. Also, reward for NM is barely higher than coop... If you are winning the new NM consistently in only rares I want your rares, and all your units...and a video so I can see your strategy. Because for me, my victory or failure seems to depend only on the units the AI decides to pick for me to fight...

I'm quite a gripe today, sorry.

Bobba I feel your pain so what I suggest to you is bring 4 HI instead of two HI and two Cav. Two cav will fall to four HI but with your LI/LIA flanking their HI and our HI tanking I can play NM without to bad of losses. Please try using HI instead of cav and see how it works. But yes I think that rewards should be upgraded.

Nethack wrote:

Bobba wrote:

And Nethack, I could never "farm" nightmare continuously. I've always had a hefty 10-20 minutes healing session between NM's even before the difficulty increase. Also, reward for NM is barely higher than coop... If you are winning the new NM consistently in only rares I want your rares, and all your units...and a video so I can see your strategy. Because for me, my victory or failure seems to depend only on the units the AI decides to pick for me to fight...

- I'm pretty sure lots of people can actually win consistently against the new NM (and way better than I do). No idea why you think it's not possible.

- On the subject of gear, it all depends if you're willing to sacrifice to craft. I try to have all my rare "perfects" (like +10 melee/+10 str for a weapon) which means breaking and recrafting a lot. But it costs a lot in other areas like building / research. So yeah they're pretty good. Not nearly all perfect but above average probably. The max is still +10/+10...

- It's still possible to beat NM naked or with low gear like uncommon. Depends on the lvl of your troops. Just won't be without loss (at least for me).

- Now I farm hard a lot more. It's better for money. IMO, it's a mistake to keep trying NM if you don't win money doing it. Better to accept it and wait till the troops level above 10.

- As for strategy, it changes every game, depending on terrain, units your bring and ofc ennemy units. I have a few basic formations that I adapt. I don't think one video of one game will show anything. It's the small decisions that change from game to game. But it's possible to beat it with "really bad" units like when I bring my 2 archers (<- and that's bad lol). It just isn't so profitable. So better farm hard, level up and wait.

Bobba wrote:

I'm quite a gripe today, sorry.

It happens. Lots of ppl were able to farm NM before. Like I said, I like it more now... it's called nightmare so it should be hard. But I have no hard feeling against people who have a different opinion.

EDIT : just wanted to test it again after your post... so I just did one with the worst troops possible and bad gear. 3 LI / 2 LIA / 2 archers / 2 noob cavs (no HI at all on my side). Gear max uncommon. Won 1600 gp, healing cost 1k. Ennemy had 2 HIs with good lvl.

2 HI's is easy, and I win win that happens. But for some reason the last 3 times in a row have been either 3 or 4 HI units on the enemy side and completely ate me. Honestly I enjoyed the new difficulty too until this whole three time in a row loss thing... I will try one more NM without going to a quest and see if that makes any difference before possibly giving up NM entirely for a while...

Funny that you say giving up NM because I was also thinking of doing the same thing and just doing hards and easys for a much better gold profit.

I'm actually farming Hard difficulty, if devs increase gold rewards we'll face an old problem, the only thing they could increase on NM without combining disaster is drop rate of fragment...

Like I said, I do hard for max gold now. I don't think it's a shame at all. It will change once we gain more xp. And we'll get back to it.

Also Bobba, true it was 2 HI only but also the (litterally) worst possible army on my side and poor gear. Pretty sure you should bring some HI if the opponent has 3+ hi level 10+ in front of you. ^^

Edit : Coop is also pretty good for gold. And still easy.

Nethack wrote:

Like I said, I do hard for max gold now. I don't think it's a shame at all. It will change once we gain more xp. And we'll get back to it.

Also Bobba, true it was 2 HI only but also the (litterally) worst possible army on my side and poor gear. Pretty sure you should bring some HI if the opponent has 3+ hi level 10+ in front of you. ^^

Edit : Coop is also pretty good for gold. And still easy.

Yeah, and the same frag drop rate. The only thing nightmare has going for it is the experience points. Of course dead units won't get experience...

Also, I brought 2 HI and 2 Cav, and gave GL armor and full epic/rare to one HI, and all rares to the other HI. The HI survived and ALMOST won the match for me (against elves), but all my other units died long ago and the last elf archers meleed my GL armor HI to death. Depressing.

Edit: Scaren, I will try bringing only 4 HI and no cav next time. Less reward and a waste of some drop rate gear, but whatever. Better than dying everytime. Of course I will be mostly doing hard and coop now...

I took your advice Scaren, I brought no cavalry at all, only 4 HI and 5 LI/LIA and it helped an unbelievable amount. I beat my quest with only 416 in heal cost, despite there being 3 dwarf HI (not very high ranks though). Maybe I will just never use cavalry again on anything but coop or hard...

I also did a non quest NM first, and there were only 2 HI, of course. For some reason it seems NM quests are harder than just playing on NM mode normally. Is this on purpose, a bug, or just bad luck on my part?

Bobba wrote:

I took your advice Scaren, I brought no cavalry at all, only 4 HI and 5 LI/LIA and it helped an unbelievable amount. I beat my quest with only 416 in heal cost, despite there being 3 dwarf HI (not very high ranks though). Maybe I will just never use cavalry again on anything but coop or hard...

I also did a non quest NM first, and there were only 2 HI, of course. For some reason it seems NM quests are harder than just playing on NM mode normally. Is this on purpose, a bug, or just bad luck on my part?

I would say that bad luck on your part and yeah the HI helped :)I was like **** NM just going to fight fire with fire and bring a lot of HI. But problem is i like to bring my cav to NM. I hope the devs will do increase rewards or frag drops or something because now I'm only going to do hards.

edit: I do like the difficulty though makes it closer to it's name but it does need a reward increase or something like that.

Thanks to the difference in rewards based on the units you bring I can make 2k from a hard match with 4 LI/ 4Cav and do it two or three times without healing, with a cost of about 1500 to heal after, so net of 2500->4000 gold, Or, I can do one nightmare with 5 LI and 4 HI, and make 1600 gold, then spend 400-1000 healing and potentially quite some time before being able to do another. I've found the former to be much easier. The only thing NM has over hard in rewards for me is the frag drop, which is also available on the much easier co-op.

I would love if rewards in battle were actually based on the total AP of the enemy you fought instead of the units you bring, then harder and larger matches would actually always reward more gold regardless of what units you bring, which would be the most fair and make the most sense. The only problem is that units heal costs vary so bringing only LI/LIA would be much cheaper to heal the losses of (then again, a whole lot harder to win, so maybe it's ok?). But it would create some imbalance with say the undead, who heal cheaply. So I guess I understand if the devs don't want to do this, but with some tweaking of heal costs I think it would be a better system than the one currently used to determine battle rewards.

fun little image of how AI had to screw me over and bring three HI when I bring two http://prntscr.com/1hkfy8

Scaren wrote:

fun little image of how AI had to screw me over and bring three HI when I bring two

Yeah, I'm just going to bring 4 from now on till I know I can handle it when bringing less.

Nethack; NM is overly hard right now, I've only been able to win about 1/2 of my battles there. Sure, my troops are lower level (6-8 mostly), but still... For the price of healing, it's reward just isn't there.

I really don't understand all this talk about running into problems from rewards being raised, as it feels right now, the only GAIN you get is from idling the game; almost all profit from battle (gold wise) goes directly to healing and repairing. This *was* mitigated somewhat by the reduction of repair prices (for damaged items, full durability items still cost as much) but was exacerbated again by the increase in difficulty for NM. As it feels right now, the rewards should go UP (especially for non-gold resources) quite a bit, that is, to NOT force everyone to buy resources... (which is, I feel, essentially why the rewards keep being dropped until nobody is getting decent profit margins...)

I don't feel I've had the same experience on NM as the rest of the posters here. Sure, it's now much harder but I've only lost one match since the change (against those supposedly inferior elves), although I've had several close calls and I usually have at least one unit wiped out. I find with 3 armies of around 1800ap, I can battle more or less constantly with the main heal delay being due to having to use more or less the same set of heroes over and over. I also find I'm making a steady profit. Not much to write home about but I'm pretty sure there's a profit nevertheless, especially when the other rewards besides gold are considered. That said, I only use rares or uncommons. So, all-in-all, I like the new NM, it certainly provides a challenge that wasn't there before and I find it superior in terms of CPs gained/time spent to any other battle mode

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I concurr. I mean Fuuu... Ya get better rewards out of easy-ass co-ops. Increase NM rewards pls

Stinkfinger wrote:

Chip56 wrote:

I would rather prefer they increase the rewards for it.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it got harder and that I actually have to fight for my win there but my cost to heal increased a lot while the rewards stayed the same.

I concurr. I mean Fuuu... Ya get better rewards out of easy-ass co-ops. Increase NM rewards pls

Yep I just do coops and hards now. I only do NM if there is a quest for it but much better gold profit from coop and hards.