Nerf Godlike items

It's impossible to avoid a defeat with the finest strategy against a full godlike army or even a full godlike unit, let's get serious, many players bought fragments from that bug exploiter and now have a lot of godlike items without paying for them with gems, how can pvp go so far if you make the game unbalanced with overpowered items in play?

AP calculation on items are wrong in all ways, at least it's best rising the AP of these items to let us having a real fair game with a chance to be balanced...I can't believe my turtle heavies can't stand a 58 AP light infantry full of godlike items because they are overpowered and cheap in AP

In one side I really enjoy to shredding the mincemeat with my godlike team, but in the other side you have the truth.

The recent change hasn't stopped Godlike stacking unit being OP as all hell.  Getting as massive amount of kills while taking virtually no damage still counteracts any flank bonus you can get.

With regards to what aspect of the game are you gentlemen referring to? ALL aspects, PvE/PVP? Or is it more situational?

Personally, I find my godlike gear certainly doesn't give my units immunity to damage as is the perception. It also eats up AP rather quickly.

This is akin to the Cav OP argument - it you were to take away from it, then would it really contribute to a team? What good is a Cav unit that can flank an enemy, only to be hacked apart when the fighting begins? What good os the top-tier of gear if the lower tiers can easily overpower you?

You do realize that equipping a unit with gear like that eats up AP like mad, and to counter that you gain additional units to flank while they do not.  This gives you a huge advantage to flank them and I promise that will give more advantage then any piece of gear does.  Now if you ball up and hope for the best w/o using superior numbers to flank then ya, your gonna loose everytime because the items will give an edge in 1v1 combat or even 1v2 when you didn't use the second unit to flank.  I beat a full godlike player today like it was nothing and i didn't even have equipment on any of my units.

Rokun wrote:

You do realize that equipping a unit with gear like that eats up AP like mad, and to counter that you gain additional units to flank while they do not.  This gives you a huge advantage to flank them and I promise that will give more advantage then any piece of gear does.  Now if you ball up and hope for the best w/o using superior numbers to flank then ya, your gonna loose everytime because the items will give an edge in 1v1 combat or even 1v2 when you didn't use the second unit to flank.  I beat a full godlike player today like it was nothing and i didn't even have equipment on any of my units.

As I already stated, flanking isn't enough.  Also fuck being a dwarf, flanking takes so long to do with our shitty movement.

In me opinion Godlike equipment has too low AP. I have godlike armor:
+24 to Endurance
+19 to Armor (plus Drop rate)
AP cost is 31

Me best rare armor is:
+8 to Endurence
+6 to Armor
AP cost is 16

So to compensate godlike item i should use 3 rare items which cost in ap would be 50% than godlike item. I know that godlike items should be the best but i think they too much OP.

You cannot compansate godlike items using lower class item because you are far behind with AP at the beginning of the fight.

You can only bring many units to battlefield and hope that you can force enemy to withdraw from battlefield. I won sometimes that battles but its very difficult and only if one units will not brake you lose the fight, because one LI with godlike equip can smash my 7 LI naked units, despite 6 LI are rearing at the same time.

Ok, lets turn the table. I have units with godlike equipment, enemy dont. As i wrote before he cannot compensate that firepower with lesser items, he must bring huge amount of units to flank/rear me. I am playing as a Undead. I will not escape nad fastly rebuild morale. He cannot win this fight without godlike items.

There are two ways to change it.

1. Raise AP of godlike items.

2. Change morale system which can be done in two ways:
a. When unit is flanking/rearing its recive penalty not only to hit but lower their melee and strenght -15/-20 for every flanking/rearing (penalty is cumulative).
b. Make morale more important stat. Lets morale influence melee. For example if unit has an item raising morale, it can raise melee about 20%, and if unit lose all morale so melee is lowered by 80% (unit without morale cant fight efficiently).


Do you have maybe stats about how often player who dont have godlike items or have it at least twice less than opponent win the battle?

kuba_ wrote:

In me opinion Godlike equipment has too low AP. I have godlike armor:
+24 to Endurance
+19 to Armor (plus Drop rate)
AP cost is 31

Me best rare armor is:
+8 to Endurence
+6 to Armor
AP cost is 16

So to compensate godlike item i should use 3 rare items which cost in ap would be 50% than godlike item. I know that godlike items should be the best but i think they too much OP.

I agree with you... I have already point this in another thread.

kuba_ wrote:

2. Change morale system which can be done in two ways:
a. When unit is flanking/rearing its recive penalty not only to hit but lower their melee and strenght -15/-20 for every flanking/rearing (penalty is cumulative).
b. Make morale more important stat. Lets morale influence melee. For example if unit has an item raising morale, it can raise melee about 20%, and if unit lose all morale so melee is lowered by 80% (unit without morale cant fight efficiently).

If I'm not mistaken, this is already how morale work in battle (minus the strenght component).

I think that now unit only gets penalty to hit against flanking unit, its not cumulative and its not lowered defensive ability (melee vs melee).

Low morale influence in to hit ratio but based what i have seen its not have much influence.

kuba_ wrote:

In me opinion Godlike equipment has too low AP. I have godlike armor:
+24 to Endurance
+19 to Armor (plus Drop rate)
AP cost is 31

Me best rare armor is:
+8 to Endurence
+6 to Armor
AP cost is 16

I'm not thrilled with the idea of stats on Godlike gear costing as much as 50% less AP than stats on other gear. When I looked into Stats per AP, there was quite a lot of variation though, so this could just be a case of lucky Godlike piece vs unlucky Rare piece.

That said, even with my relatively small sample size, I had noticed the trend that higher rarity items had better AP pricing.

I do think item AP valuations need some more scrutiny before a big system like Guild Warfare goes live. The results of battles will matter more than they do now.

Quote :

There are two ways to change it.

1. Raise AP of godlike items.

2. Change morale system which can be done in two ways:
a. When unit is flanking/rearing its recive penalty not only to hit but lower their melee and strenght -15/-20 for every flanking/rearing (penalty is cumulative).
b. Make morale more important stat. Lets morale influence melee. For example if unit has an item raising morale, it can raise melee about 20%, and if unit lose all morale so melee is lowered by 80% (unit without morale cant fight efficiently).


Do you have maybe stats about how often player who dont have godlike items or have it at least twice less than opponent win the battle?

I dont think AP of godlikes needs to be raised, but the stats may need to be toned down. Stat per AP should be pretty much the same regardless of item Rarity.

The flanking penalty is -melee. When people say -hit chance, they really should say that it is an indirect effect of the melee penalty.

There is another discussion about how Undead got an indirect buff with the extra Flee rolls. I kinda disagree with emphasizing fleeing as such an important mechanic for balance because Undead are immune to it. The more reliant we are on Fleeing to balance combat, the more skewed Undead become among other side effects that skew balance.

I think stat penalties for morale checks are a better way to balance instead of being too reliant on fleeing. STR or even Armor penalties would work well -- whenever a unit's morale drops below 65%, instead of so many recurring flee checks, it now also starts to lose more Melee and/or Armor.

kuba_ wrote:

I think that now unit only gets penalty to hit against flanking unit, its not cumulative and its not lowered defensive ability (melee vs melee).

Low morale influence in to hit ratio but based what i have seen its not have much influence.

I'm fairly confident the morale penalties are cumulative. I'm not sure if the melee penalties are though.

Another option is to reduce melee on a percentage basis - not a flat amount.

-15 or -20 melee might feel in line vs Godlike gear, but it would be very overpowering vs other gear levels.

TLDR at bottom in Blue.

Before the flanking changes, morale was not worth much as a stat. Any unit with a hero would pretty much never flee. So the initial flanking patch was a very good first step away from that old gameplay. The melee penalties are close to the right point, but I think the Devs felt units were still not breaking and fleeing before they died.

I agree that very few units should have enough morale to completely die before they break - most should end up running before they die. Right now, bad RNG causes near full health units to break.

This mechanic is most exploitable by Undead who can stack large numbers of units to force breaks by simply engaging in a flank, manually fleeing, and then re-engaging to roll the RNG dice much more often than other races - and without fear of being subjected to the same tactic themselves.

The problem is that flanking causes an instantaneous morale deduction and flee checks occur on morale losses below 65%. I would suggest a time based flee check that occurs X times per round or per unit time. Perhaps how often the checks occurs scales based on % of morale - but not linearly, it should be exponentially faster as morale drops low. So the morale checks are infrequent at the 50-70% range, but become extremely frequent at the 10% range.

In the thread you posted, I talked a lot about how too much RNG is a bad thing. This would be one of those cases. I wont repeat all of it here, but the gist is that :

• RNG should be used to provide players a reasonably consistent experience, but enough randomness that they can be surprised on occasion.
  
• There is a lot of psychological research on this - Skinner boxes, Gambling, etc.
  
• There is a "sweet spot" for the amount of randomness that players/gamers/people enjoy in competition. That is about where the target should be.
  

Long way around to get back on topic -- but my point is too much variation/RNG in Items or Stats/AP or combat mechanics is a bad thing. Right now, there is a lot in most aspects of the game.

ive bought 15000 gems, and bought chest around 10+ times =]

so i have 9 god like items and 20 epic items and many others, but just dont bother to change my equipment for 1 pvp battle.

after fighting against some god-like players, i have to say that god-like items are ruining the game.

im using all rare/uncommon items as what i do in Solo, vs a full god-like items player. my 5 units are Lv 7-8, his 3 Units are Lv 6-7, so im averagely 1 level higher

i flanked him and reared him, all strategy u can think of .
but finally, i lost all 125 units while hes lossing only 6 units.

yes, i can wear all my god-like and epic items and to overrun some players like he did, but there is no fun at all, because the only thing what i need to do is to go straight and kill whatever blocking my road. i dont even need to take care of my flank nor my rear because i can easily kill someone at my back

9 Level gives only 27 points, full tech gives 18+18 = 36 points but 1 god-like item give 40-50 points. (or even 70+ points if u are lucky enough)
all research, buildings and level are useless, what i need is 4 god-like items and i can kill everything.

developer, is this the so-called "strategy" you want us to enjoy????

I couldnt agree more with Kusin

the problem with the current "Fixes" to make godlikes less OP is that unbreakable units won't suffer from this, undead units and assualt units can wear godlikes without fear of running. 

and to tell you just how op godlikes are here are some estimates of how long battles go.

with comparable equipment to my forces( mostly uncommons) the entire battle(if just get over with) will last 5 to 8 minutes. the battles are often very close and even.

an cav unit and a two lights armed with godlikes and epics can end the battle withinthe 5 minutes marks. If I get lucky my forces will take out 15 enemy soldiers.

Ty Kusin, that's what I was talking about

Now I can firsthand say: Godlike items are really overpowered.
If a orc LI beats a dwarven HI and LI and LIA flanking/rearing it something is not right.

Nice trolling attempt Runeslayer, these changes only gives us the illusion that you balanced godlike items, I'm not happy about it...full godlike LI are still better than heavies in melee, if you want this to be an item dependent game just tell me and I'll leave all my interests to put a single dollar for it...there are many other games worthy of my 20$ a month

===EDIT===
PvP is broken again, I doubt I'm gonna play another PvP match again. This game is gonna be boring for payers too once they realize this is an item dependant game with no value for strategy

Godlike items should benefit payers and casual gamers, being the only items in game having +drop rate%, +exp%, +gold reward% as additional stats but not a single base stat difference from epic items because it would break the game completely.
Base stats boost can greatly overpower units, if you add more and more base stats on item you irreparably break the game making it boring both for non payers and for payers too.
The way you reduced crafting materials from PvE ruined the game for everyone....

How can you expect to balance the game when human and elf LI add endurance and soaking damage abilities to +20 or more godlike's endurance/armor against heavies? There is no need to be a genius to understand there is something wrong...