Rune has asked us....

for positive suggestions on "fixing" the bonus system. Siranthony has been corresponding with Rune about this subject. The bottom line is simple. Rune would like us, the community, to come up with some ideas on a fix that do not require rewriting code. He has made it clear he will not do that. I would like to thank Siranthony for initiating the contact and following up on the correspondence as we attempt to get some answers.

I believe we have discussed this endlessly and did indeed come up with some suggestions...perhaps most importantly eliminating farmers from the equation. Rune believes that simply turning off the bonus system will result in a deluge of complaints from Dark Faction (replacing the deluge he is currently receiving from Light Faction ) If we want to fix the bonus system, now is the time to come up with some solutions to see if any can be implemented. Personally, i would like to see it turned off...i do not think the number of players in a faction has anything to do with the outcome of a war. This is my 10 Tiger tanks will destroy 100 Shermans any day argument which i am sure you are all tired of.

Rune tells us his mandate is to maintain the game and do what he can to save it. I believe fixing the bonus system may the the single most critical issue in this mandate. So fire away, let Rune hear you...let's try to come together to fix this blasted thing.

There are already plenty topics about bonus. Many players told what they think. Do you have any suggestion how to improve game?

http://prntscr.com/57mjn4 ....here is why i have started this thread...and i agree kuba, we have discussed this endlessly...i would venture to say that any suggestions for improving game play and adjusting features etc will not happen.

Return of devs, while exciting and fills us all with hope, really only means game will not crash for 3 months and we all can spend our money on gems. There will be no substantial changes.

well i am not against creating new topics, but i do not see any suggestions what should be changed

The multi account users if any? Need to be banned fast!

Forget the farmers all together!

Lower the cp bonus slightly from 40 % to 20/25 %!

Is this stuff even possible or fair?

Not sure what would require coding or not coding. I think most of us agree at the very least getting rid of the farmers is the way to go. Just don't know how complicated this is. Adding in a layer of activity would be nice (1-5 battles to be considered and active fighter), but again, dunno if that is an easy fix.

Dahk wrote:

Not sure what would require coding or not coding. I think most of us agree at the very least getting rid of the farmers is the way to go. Just don't know how complicated this is. Adding in a layer of activity would be nice (1-5 battles to be considered and active fighter), but again, dunno if that is an easy fix.

Yeah we need know what is possible without killing the devs!

Boboknack wrote:

Dahk wrote:

Not sure what would require coding or not coding. I think most of us agree at the very least getting rid of the farmers is the way to go. Just don't know how complicated this is. Adding in a layer of activity would be nice (1-5 battles to be considered and active fighter), but again, dunno if that is an easy fix.

Yeah we need know what is possible without killing the devs!

Let the discussion roll and don't limit yourselves to what can be done or cannot be done.

What is the solution which can be agreed upon by both Factions and will provide some "protection" to the underpopulated side, so the war is not decided upon populations?

in a perfect world, log ins would not count at all...that way farmers can farm and not affect the battlefield...also, dual accounts would have less of an affect ...so there would be no value in having a dual account except to spy. and that is trivial imho.

i will say once more that population is less of a factor than cp generating capacity.
just because a faction has less players does not mean it is less powerful...right now i would say that dark is way more powerful than light even with out the bonus...if every body on both sides came back, then i don't know...so have a qualifier for inclusion in bonus system population count..20 cp's, 5 battles, ?????

eliminate dual accounts, and have a qualifier and at least we have something to work with...capping bonus at 1% ) would be a good idea as well! but a bonus cap would be helpful..40% is rather extreme...some have mentioned a cap on capital armies...idk ... i am open on that , whatever works

What about is the bonus cap is affected based in the number of active (fighter players) on each side that we see in the war report?, for example is there are 200 dark (active fighters) and 200 light (active fighters) the bonus cap is reduced to 0% cause the dark side is no longer outnumbered and everything depend on the cp input of the players, And there should be more requirements to count a player (as a active fighter that affect the cp bonus in the war report), for example certain amount of fame (probably 1k or more) or barrack level, cause is you only count players that do a certain amount of battles for example do 5 battles a day, a newbie can do 5 normals and a veteran 5 suicides that is a huge difference, a minimal cp input, I think it should be more than 100 cp, and I think these values (like the game mechanics) should be hidden to prevent exploitation.

Note: when I mean the bonus cap, I mean how great the bonus can be based of number of active fighter players (taking out farmers of the equation). But is dark players for example be lazy 1 day, and light outnumber they for example 150/250, and ligthies do more battles than darkies, the bonus cap can be high but the bonus that darkies have will be lower than that cap, just because they fight less than the opponent side.

I think its important that the light faction come up with more suggestions and discuss between themselves what they would consider fair - so we don't get blamed for taking over the forum again!

We can then try to come up with our input?

Do not see why we can not find the middle ground and agree to the cut bonus down by 50% then let the devs or whoever review it at end of each war to keep it fair.

Think more important thing is that we are all supporting the game or there is not going to be a game to fight over who has what bonus.
Devs are here to maintain the game for 3 months see if it can be saved, they walk away guess it is the end.

Ok, so what I am seeing is, so far as the bonus system goes, everyone, light and dark are saying the same thing. Kill the farmers from the bonus system. Let the bonus reflect the efforts of the fighters, the ones' that actually generate cps that turn the tide of war. Farmers don't care about cps, they care about gathering resources and building, which is fine, and if they want, they can contribute to the war effort with resources for guilds. Honestly, from what I've seen, fighters contribute more resources to guilds than farmers.. but that is just my opinion.
What is up for debate, and this is up to you Rune et al, is it possible to easily only count fighters that commit to a certain amount of battlers per day? or certain cps per day (less desirable)? (what is up for debate is how many battles or cps per day).
Now, outside of the bonus system, I think there are a plethora of ideas.. but I'd just like to focus on the bonus system to be honest. ... even though I am a HUGE advocate of fixing range and the fact that *I* face WAY too MANY AI AP's!!!! Why do you guys (RNG) hate me?!?!?! *waaaaahhh*
Sorry, emotional tangent.

eliminate farmers from equation

get a handle on dual accounts...either eliminate them (possible?) or redo the system so dual accounts have no impact ...i guess this is same as farmers but there is a difference..

population that is considered in bonus either fights 5 battles a day or generates 50 cp's...remember..when you are scoring 3 cp's a fight..50 is a big number..thus i favor the number of battles as qualifier...yes 5 battles on normal at 5 cp's per is different than 5 suicides by strachu but they are victories and it is a show of effort and should count

cap on bonus? .. Rune wants definitive answers so yes...20% cap... obviously open to discussion..2% ok?

do we agree or disagree that faction population is important...i tend to believe it is not...obviously it can be at some point but right now...there are so many dark big hitters and so few light that any population difference means little in the war effort and cp generation and do we want to be put in a situation where we are discouraging new players?

i love the ability to review and tweak after each war..

personally i would just turn it off for one war...let's see what happens..i bet dark still prevails but they might have to work a little bit harder.

anything else? keep it simple. and thanks

ps...the above are the suggestions we submit to Rune...so have at them

and i do not think you will get much light faction play here as there is not much of a light faction left. All the new players haven't even registered for forum and there are very few older players left...and any vets that are left participate on a very limited basis..i will not complain that dark took over the forum discussion.... well maybe a little!

I hate to be a downer, but I feel like BC has already passed the point of no return. No matter what happens its too little too late, the player bleed started around the AI merc army problems and FoW implementation and the bonus system is just one last nail. Short of a full pick up some company for total control, and with a total dedication to it, I don't see how BC can become profitable in the near future.

At first bonus system is a very good think, without it game would have died long ago as light players had almost twice players than dark some time ago. For me max 40% of CP bonus is not a problem. Problem is that bonus include farmers. Players that are not generating CP should not be included in bonus calculation.

Another good thing would be to allow 3 or 5 top cp players from winning side to change side to try new race without loosing any building or unit progress (lets say it would be God touch). Some veteran players could be interested in changing their race and it would make more equal future war.

kqlkql wrote:

eliminate farmers from equation
population that is considered in bonus either fights 5 battles a day or generates 50 cp's.
cap on bonus? .. Rune wants definitive answers so yes...20% cap... obviously open to discussion..2% ok?

Oh yes, I forgot about the cap. Yes I agree with you, cap needs to be lowered. Somewhere between 20% and 30%.. leaning towards 25%. I'm either getting old or it's too early in the morning KQL, is that a 200% only for the DF you are suggesting? Sounds awful to me, you are such a terrible lightie
yeah, agree with everything here.. and I *think* most of us agree a battle count as opposed to a cp count is better for determination of active fighters, it will help our youngn's feel more a part of the war!

kqlkql wrote:

do we agree or disagree that faction population is important...i tend to believe it is not.

Are we going to have to get into another tank/ant discussion?!?! heheh, though I am starting to believe if the new active fighter bonus were enacted, you guys would have the bonus. .. which I would be totally in favor of.

kqlkql wrote:

i love the ability to review and tweak after each war..

If the devs can procure a more permanent solution that is!

kqlkql wrote:

personally i would just turn it off for one war...let's see what happens..i bet dark still prevails but they might have to work a little bit harder.

Why do you want us to work harder?!?!? My fingers already hurt as it is!!!

A good suggestion to change the bonus to 20% max at the moment.
Controlling this after every war should be possible, so if the light side gets too strong the bonus-system could be changed to 25 or 30%, or lowered as well.

The main problem of the game is atm, that you dont need to buy gems to become a good player and you cant get a better player by buying gems.
If new players could level up much faster or upgrade much faster by buying gems, than you could earn money.

I love this game, I like the players I talk with and I would be very sad if we losse many on them or the game will be closed, so lets try to keep the game alife.

kuba's "god touch" sounds neat! a downside might be: those top earners are often quite high up or central their respective guilds.

if we're throwing out ideas: how's about maknig the cps earned per battle dependent on the AI's AP? i assume the AI's AP is calculated from a mean value +/- a random percentage. it would be fun to link that to the cps earned from the battle.
it would add a nice randomised twist to the game, i think.

kuba_ wrote:

At first bonus system is a very good think, without it game would have died long ago as light players had almost twice players than dark some time ago. For me max 40%  of CP bonus is not a problem. Problem is that bonus include farmers. Players that are not generating CP should not be included in bonus calculation.

Another good thing would be to allow 3 or 5 top cp players from winning side to change side to try new race without loosing any building or unit progress (lets say it would be God touch). Some veteran players could be interested in changing their race and it would make more equal future war.

• I Like the God Touch Idea.
  Include a way in the bonus to eliminate potential for exploitation.
  Farmers/dual accounts should not factor into bonus. I think you should have 5 victories to count as an active fighter.
  Maybe have a victory counter, log-ins, and fighter counter.
  

I Don't Mind 40% max for bonus. I would love to have 40% bonus
However when the light side has reduced the bonus at times, the next day there is an influx of log-ins. Light side goes from 200 something to 300 some light log-ins.
If 5 victories were needed to count as an active player, it would eliminate the exploitation ability. Allowing active fighters who do 20+ battles to reduce/shift bonus to their side.

Conqustor

kqlkql wrote:

eliminate farmers from equation

get a handle on dual  accounts...either eliminate them (possible?) or redo the  system so dual accounts have no impact ...i guess this is same as farmers but  there is a difference..

population that is considered in bonus either fights 5 battles a day or generates 50 cp's...remember..when you are scoring 3 cp's a fight..50 is a big number..thus i favor the number of battles as qualifier...yes 5 battles on normal at 5 cp's per is different than 5 suicides by strachu but they are victories and it is a show of effort and should count

cap on bonus? .. Rune wants definitive answers so yes...20% cap... obviously open to discussion..2% ok?

do we agree or disagree that faction population is important...i tend to believe it is not...obviously it can be at some point but right now...there are so many dark big hitters and so few light that any population difference means little in the war effort and cp generation and do we want to be put in a situation where we are discouraging new players?

i love the ability to review and tweak after each war..

personally i would just turn it off for one war...let's see what happens..i bet dark still prevails but they might have to work a little bit harder.

anything else? keep it simple. and thanks

Well I would be in favour of turning off the cp bonus and see how it goes.(As a gesture to the light faction!)

I do personally think that faction numbers have an impact. Maybe it would be less(Clearly it is) now but when the light faction had more hard hitters it did matter.

But I guess it would be to difficult to turn the bonus of now?(Rewritten code and stuff) Thus the bonus should have minimal impact but still give the underpopulated side a small "bonus" be it dark or light.

And again forget the farmers! Only count active fighters. How that is to be done I simply don't know.

if the bonus is turned off, i very much do request the AI armies are either turned off as well or toned down a lot. currently they are hard to compensate for. without bonus, i doubt it's possible to counter their influence.

klaas wrote:

if the bonus is turned off, i very much do request the AI armies are either turned off as well or toned down a lot. currently they are hard to compensate for. without bonus, i doubt it's possible to counter their influence.

True and its very demoralizing seeing a hex go down the drain when one has been working on it for days, we all know that feeling.