Too much gold

Spinoff thread from Mercenaires thread

Tibr wrote:

[income was already mentioned many times among other here with a screenshot http://www.battleconforum.com/t1736-suicidal-mode] If i happen to face 50% more AI then obviously the gold rewards go up if i manage to kill all that.

Gold. We get too much, yes. Not all of us get too much, yes. Nightmare and especially below, i dare to say, are ballanced. Insane and suicide are giving proportionally much higher gain. Gold rewards were increased in the hinsight of transmutation, at least i got that feeling, that would cost a lot of it. Any new implementation that would consume gold would help to solve the problem - even if its guild armies and heal cost for those (that may or may not be in 50k range).

The market is flawed NOT only because ppl have too much gold. It is also flawed because nobody is selling anything, because those who could sell anything dont need gold themselves (or trade frags for ressources guild internally). As a result the market is empty. The old scheme of noob sells frag for gold and buys res is out of the question because values for epic/gl fragments skyrocketed and noobs dont even have warehouse capacity to sell - their only chance is guild trades.

Now we did get that 50% chance for second fragment, and its great, it should help shifting the scale. Yet those who benefit from epic/godlike drops to 95% need them for own purposes. So again .. those who could sell, dont sell because they´d rather buy. Second fragment is great and it made suicide sustainable in terms of reforge/frags and allow to craft something new occationally.

I am all for nerfing gold income, in fact i was against the increase two month ago. But i also expect upcoming features to be a gold costly experience.

Few more words to the AI limits. I dont mind 50% more AI now and then, its really hardcore and i often dont need such a disadvantage, undead with 5 HI or a full melee orc team are usually enough to leave very few survivors.

The really big problem about facing AI on 18-20 levels will be the lack of godlike artifacts. All your heroes and tactics will not help if you dont have the items to cap stats. I play for over 5 months and i have gotten only 5 godlike artifacts, 2 of them i bought. Even with transmutation players will not be able to supply enough artifacts to match max level AI. In addition arti have lower durability. Could we at least raise the proportions for a godlike to be an artifact depending on AI army level?

Also i think i recall someone saying that the AI also has research levels depending on the difficulty ... so the suicide AI has +18 melee/armor. Or does my memory play tricks and it was only mentioned and not implemented?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Wrong, but not the right place (Mercenaries thread) to discuss about this.

... hence ... this thread.

Another excellent post by Tibr: +1

Tibr wrote:

The market is flawed NOT only because ppl have too much gold. It is also flawed because nobody is selling anything, because those who could sell anything dont need gold themselves (or trade frags for ressources guild internally). As a result the market is empty. The old scheme of noob sells frag for gold and buys res is out of the question because values for epic/gl fragments skyrocketed and noobs dont even have warehouse capacity to sell - their only chance is guild trades.

All teasing aside ... agreed, the market is currently flawed with too much gold ... and as Tibr wrote .. that made epics/godlike skyrocket so much, newbies can't sell them as won't fit in their warehouse.

Also, as a newbie, I used the selling fragments & buying resources for the first month was very useful. However, its no longer as viable for another reason:

Pearl wrote:

Joyce played the game for about a month without gems on Everos. It was lots of fun. Iron/Stone was a problem -- however, the solution seemed simple:

• Sell all rares, epics & godlike fragment drops for gold & use the gold to buy iron & stone (stone as about 1700 gold then & iron was about 2000 gold);
  
• A lot of player advised against this strategy, but it made sense mathematically & was also a good way to meet players & make friends;
  
• This strategy is no longer as viable; as now you need your own rares to be able to fight well due to the fact that the enemy AI has armor also.
  

Suggestions:

• Decrease gold, increase resources (already being done);
  
• Allow users to collect partial gold from market when an item has sold for MORE than their current warehouse (this is important for newbies);
  
• Consider a dark market & a light market. A lot of people would sell resources a lot cheaper to their own faction. They just don't want to sell them cheaper to the opposite faction¹
  

---

¹See Common Market Issues:

Quote :

A major issue is the common market between light & dark:

Quote :

• The logic of a war game, is you don't sell iron to your enemy (dark side) except at expensive prices;
  
• While you sell iron to your allies (light side) at low prices;
  
• We can't do that with one common market

I don't support removing the global market, but separate faction markets in addition to the global market would be acceptable, though maybe too much to manage... I don't know, I like the market the way it is, except for the overabundance of gold ruining it.

I agree completely with suggestions #1 and #2 though. Selling a GL frag for a lot when just starting out is simply not wise unless you can get some kind of special arranged deal or guild deal because you won't be able to collect the gold for a long time. It's probably for the best if this is simplified so it doesn't catch players off guard and leave them with an uncollectable sum of money in their vault for 2 months...

Here is what I am personally working on:

(Not final values, but quite close to what will be implemented)

1. Gold rewards on Easy will rise approximately 300%

2. Currently, players do not receive any resources rewards on Easy. This will change to definitely 1 (random), plus a chance for one or two more. This will help new players get on their feet by earning resources from battles

3. Gold rewards on Normal will rise approximately 125%

4. Resources rewards on Normal will rise approximately 500% (1 random resource plus a chance for one or two more)

5. Gold rewards on Hard will drop approximately 25% and resources rewards will rise approximately 200% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more (under consideration))

6. Gold rewards on Nightmare will drop approximately 55% and resources rewards will rise approximately 100% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more)

7. Gold rewards on Insane will drop approximately 50% and resources rewards will rise approximately 50% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more)

8. Gold rewards on Suicide will drop approximately 35% and resources rewards will rise approximately 55% (all resources)

9. CO-OP as Hard and PvP will probably be close to Suicide

10. Technology and building upgrades quests will be merged in order to create a better quest flow. Resources rewards will be reworked for the quests.

Currently players get too much gold from battles, but very little resources and they use the gold in the Auction House in order to get MORE Gold... It should be the other way around...Having a surplus in resources and trade in Gold... Obviously, the trick is NOT to change from one extreme to the other (too many resources....no Gold), but to create a healthy economy, hence the number of resources, as rewards, and their randomness in battles.

In time, we will add more functions which players can use and will require resources and Gold such as the transmutation, crafting consumables and ingredients, raise, upgrade and maintain Guild Armies (YEAP), upgrade Guild Regions (YEAP), raise and upgrade Capital Armies (YEAP) and many more...

RuneSlayer wrote:

Here is what I am personally working on:

(Not final values, but quite close to what will be implemented)

1. Gold rewards on Easy will rise approximately 300%

2. Currently, players do not receive any resources rewards on Easy. This will change to definitely 1 (random), plus a chance for one or two more. This will help new players get on their feet by earning resources from battles

3. Gold rewards on Normal will rise approximately 125%

4. Resources rewards on Normal will rise approximately 500% (1 random resource plus a chance for one or two more)

5. Gold rewards on Hard will drop approximately 25% and resources rewards will rise approximately 200% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more (under consideration))

6. Gold rewards on Nightmare will drop approximately 55% and resources rewards will rise approximately 100% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more)

7. Gold rewards on Insane will drop approximately 50% and resources rewards will rise approximately 50% (2 random resources plus a chance for one more)

8. Gold rewards on Suicide will drop approximately 35% and resources rewards will rise approximately 55% (all resources)

9. CO-OP as Hard and PvP will probably be close to Suicide

10. Technology and building upgrades quests will be merged in order to create a better quest flow. Resources rewards will be reworked for the quests.

Currently players get too much gold from battles, but very little resources and they use the gold in the Auction House in order to get MORE Gold... It should be the other way around...Having a surplus in resources and trade in Gold... Obviously, the trick is NOT to change from one extreme to the other (too many resources....no Gold), but to create a healthy economy, hence the number of resources, as rewards, and their randomness in battles.

In time, we will add more functions which players can use and will require resources and Gold such as the transmutation, crafting consumables and ingredients, raise, upgrade and maintain Guild Armies (YEAP), upgrade Guild Regions (YEAP), raise and upgrade Capital Armies (YEAP) and many more...

*nearly has a heart attack out of excitement!!!*

Looking forward to this resource and quest updating patch! It sounds like exactly what the doctor ordered! I think it will really make newer players feel more comfortable too trying to get upgrades for their buildings and such. YES!

RuneSlayer wrote:

Here is what I am personally working

Initially, based on playing the game a lot ... These adjustments initially² look quite good +1

... in particular ...

Runeslayer wrote:

1. Gold rewards on Easy will rise approximately 300%

2. Currently, players do not receive any resources rewards on Easy. This will change to definitely 1 (random), plus a chance for one or two more. This will help new players get on their feet by earning resources from battles

Really superb helping the newbies this way +1

---

Runeslayer wrote:

In time, we will add more functions which players can use and will require resources and Gold such as the transmutation, crafting consumables and ingredients, raise, upgrade and maintain Guild Armies (YEAP), upgrade Guild Regions (YEAP), raise and upgrade Capital Armies (YEAP) and many more...

This is why we¹   this game & look forward to its future.  Thanks  

---

¹Rare use of the plural by Pearl ... proper usage thought this time, see above by Bobba for example.
²Just so the developers don't feel too comfortable; let me warn them ... this community is *already* preparing the whiny posts about not enough gold, to be released in the future ... you wouldn't expect anything else of us ... would you?  

Yay! Now everybody likes Runeslayer again!    

lol

(You just wait and see when I "inject" the mercenaries with my power dose and then you will see! )

RuneSlayer wrote:

Yay! Now everybody likes Runeslayer again!    

lol

(You just wait and see when I "inject" the mercenaries with my power dose and then you will see! )

Many of us may seem grumpy but we never stopped liking you (or at least I didn't).

All this seems like a bum rush of great improvement though. So naturally I am excited!  

Go team go! Go team go! Oh what am I doing I hate cheers...

Er um.. well.. I'm happy, what can I say.

Bobba wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Yay! Now everybody likes Runeslayer again!    

lol

(You just wait and see when I "inject" the mercenaries with my power dose and then you will see! )

Many of us may seem grumpy but we never stopped liking you (or at least I didn't).

All this seems like a bum rush of great improvement though. So naturally I am excited!   

Then what will happen when the the AI PVP/Prestige system with the new units will come out? Will you need oxygen?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Bobba wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Yay! Now everybody likes Runeslayer again!    

lol

(You just wait and see when I "inject" the mercenaries with my power dose and then you will see! )

Many of us may seem grumpy but we never stopped liking you (or at least I didn't).

All this seems like a bum rush of great improvement though. So naturally I am excited!   

Then what will happen when the the AI PVP/Prestige system with the new units will come out? Will you need oxygen?

Quite possibly.

Soooo, when is this happening?

I saw you made the ressource rewards random (i am getting 3k stone and 500-600 iron/wood and any other combinations), but the sum and gold are still the same. Everyone was expecting this to happen two days ago and ppl even flooded the market with ressources in expectation. Dont you get a wrong impression now, give us the patch  

Tibr wrote:

Soooo, when is this happening?

I saw you made the ressource rewards random (i am getting 3k stone and 500-600 iron/wood and any other combinations), but the sum and gold are still the same. Everyone was expecting this to happen two days ago and ppl even flooded the market with ressources in expectation. Dont you get a wrong impression now, give us the patch  

Either Monday or Tuesday... I am still playing with chances and values...

In general:

1. Gold has gone down for Hard, Nightmare, Insane, Suicide, CO-OP and PvP

2. Resources have gone up for ALL battle difficulties

3. Easy gets resources such as wood, stone and iron when it was just Gold for the players

4. Most battle difficulties get a chance for more types of resources rewarded to the players

Detailed information will be provided when the changes go live

Move along..nothing to see here...:

 



...




  

it seems the nerfing of gold rewards has gone overboard a little. The new gold rewards suffice for healing the troops and making a bit of profit, but when taking gear-repair into account the gold rewards now are a bit too low. Especially in the higher level fights, this is becoming a problem fast.
Perhaps some re-adjustment is in order.

klaas wrote:

it seems the nerfing of gold rewards has gone overboard a little. The new gold rewards suffice for healing the troops and making a bit of profit, but when taking gear-repair into account the gold rewards now are a bit too low. Especially in the higher level fights, this is becoming a problem fast.
Perhaps some re-adjustment is in order.

Agree on this... My repair slots are all full of GL and some epics! and thats expensive! sure you can sell rec to get the gold, but seriously! that should not be necessary! i have about 20-25GL that are crafted before the update in repair times, so i guess you can see this is becoming a problem!

just ad a slightly increase in gold again :-) thx :-)

Well, the idea is to increase the resources in the economy, without creating a stable offer rate to each type (wood, stone, iron), hence the variations in battle rewards and create deflation...

Trading resources and items should be used to acquire gold.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Well, the idea is to increase the resources in the economy, without creating a stable offer rate to each type (wood, stone, iron), hence the variations in battle rewards and create deflation...

Trading resouces and items should be used to acquire gold.

This will only lead to a market full of items and rec(for very low price), and then its to much to buy, and its only matter of luck if someone buying your stuff! it can take up to, say 3 hours before someone buy it, and you have 3 hours without repair....

I feel this is a step backward then forward...

RuneSlayer wrote:

Well, the idea is to increase the resources in the economy, without creating a stable offer rate to each type (wood, stone, iron), hence the variations in battle rewards and create deflation...

Trading resouces and items should be used to acquire gold.

but, you can't buy anything when all your gold rewards go towards healing and repairing.
The new reward system is fine for newer players with lower repair costs (i guesstimate), but with higher level equipment, the repaircosts rise to such an extent that you won't have spare gold to buy stuff on the market. If enough players experience this problem the market will grind to a halt in the opposite direction as before the update, from not enough sellers to not enough buyers.

Let it sink for a week or two, then we can see whether the system needs a change. Gold hasnt been valuable for over 3months .. now it is, and it was a necessary step. Epic frags may go back to old prices of 15-18k gold and such, also ressources are gained a lot faster now - i´d rather wait and see.

I have to agree on that.

As much as I can understand playing with the market and selling resources for gold to be able to afford research, building upgrades or even crafting idea, we shouldn't struggle with item repair costs (it's already annoying as it is).

All my godlikes and most of my epics require more gold to repair than I'm gaining from one nightmare run, add healing cost on top of that and we have an issue right there.

Therefore I think the new gold ratio rewards are in need of some tweaking (~20% more or so) or you could simply lower the repair costs by like at least half.
With above changes we could still maintain the "daily" expenses (healing, repair) and use the market for gold needed for upgrades and crafting.


Long story short - current gold ratios are not enough to cover healing and repairs

If there is any problem, I'd say it would be gold rewards at nightmare and above. I haven't had any real issues with the rewards on hard.

Taters wrote:

I have to agree on that.

As much as I can understand playing with the market and selling resources for gold to be able to afford research, building upgrades or even crafting idea, we shouldn't struggle with item repair costs (it's already annoying as it is).

All my godlikes and most of my epics require more gold to repair than I'm gaining from one nightmare run, add healing cost on top of that and we have an issue right there.

Therefore I think the new gold ratio rewards are in need of some tweaking (~20% more or so) or you could simply lower the repair costs by like at least half.
With above changes we could still maintain the "daily" expenses (healing, repair) and use the market for gold needed for upgrades and crafting.


Long story short - current gold ratios are not enough to cover healing and repairs

You do not need epic/gl items to win Nightmare and with rares you should be able to earn some gold. The same for suicide/insane, player cant have too many epic/gl items, despite fact i belive gold rewards should be raised by 10-20% i would like to see current system running for few weeks without any changes

They raised AP so that we can use our items if we want. But now we can't, again...

kuba_ wrote:

You do not need epic/gl items to win Nightmare and with rares you should be able to earn some gold. The same for suicide/insane, player cant have too many epic/gl items, despite fact i belive gold rewards should be raised by 10-20% i would like to see current system running for few weeks without any changes

To be honest even with uncommon/rare repair prices and healing costs you're lacking gold while doing nightmare runs. I've tested it and sadly if you want to gain gold rather than sink it, currently you have to run naked.
I've been told that people are not having those problems with Hard and below, so my guess is that Nightmare and up are nerfed too much gold wise.

yup now we got lots of res and no gold i think i prefared the state when we got no res but lots of gold