Light Artillery is getting on my nerves!

I bring the toughest units I've got and do my best to take cover and all it takes is being 1 mm out in the open and I get annihilated by Light artillery, that is at the other end of the map firing right into both me and the enemy, its getting ridiculous.

Winning against Light forces is simply to difficult compared to fighting dark units. Light artillery is also able to fire with precision at fleeing units when FOW is on which makes absolutely no sense. This madness simply has to have an end.

Another thing that is getting on my nerves, if I decrease the difficulty of a battle - I often find myself being up against 3 light artillery units and not just 1.

14 minutes of heal time for heroes and lots of broken gear is getting annoying.

Could it be that the population imbalance issues this game has, have something to do with the fact that it is harder fighting Light units?

People have complained several times that the AI doesn't follow the rules for FoW. It is bad enough that the player cannot "hide" from the AI, but it becomes obviously broken when range units are involved. Players are required to scout and spot for effective use of range. AI just starts shooting you, as long as LoS is (technically, since they can't see under the fog) available. Silly really.

To be honest, I assume dark artillery would be more annoying, if it wasn't so crappy. Blind fire into FoW over obstacles? That's just unfair, it's a good thing you can march LIA straight at them w/out dying... if they had the pop of light artillery I wouldn't try it haha .

LSLarry wrote:

People have complained several times that the AI doesn't follow the rules for FoW.  It is bad enough that the player cannot "hide" from the AI, but it becomes obviously broken when range units are involved.   Players are required to scout and spot for effective use of range.  AI just starts shooting you, as long as LoS is (technically, since they can't see under the fog) available.  Silly really.

To be honest, I assume dark artillery would be more annoying, if it wasn't so crappy.  Blind fire into FoW over obstacles?  That's just unfair, it's a good thing you can march LIA straight at them w/out dying... if they had the pop of light artillery I wouldn't try it haha .

Just change dark artillery to be more like light artillery, why this unfair advantage, I don't get it!

LSLarry wrote:

People have complained several times that the AI doesn't follow the rules for FoW.  It is bad enough that the player cannot "hide" from the AI, but it becomes obviously broken when range units are involved.   Players are required to scout and spot for effective use of range.  AI just starts shooting you, as long as LoS is (technically, since they can't see under the fog) available.  Silly really.

To be honest, I assume dark artillery would be more annoying, if it wasn't so crappy.  Blind fire into FoW over obstacles?  That's just unfair, it's a good thing you can march LIA straight at them w/out dying... if they had the pop of light artillery I wouldn't try it haha .

I don't think this can be properly solved by the devs. AI just knows where you hide your units or rush your cav up. Also, the AI looks impressive no matter which side, though facing Light arti (especially the bolt thrower) is no vacation. If you're using archers, make sure you got enough of them in the end. ''Rush'' the Light arti (bolt thrower may prove more devastating) with your archers and shoot it down.

I noticed dark arti are/seem far more accurate now than a few months back, when I re-started playing. I even grew ''afraid'' of them, not only with my LIA, but also with my LI. They really seem to hit more often, almost every time in fact, and my full gl LI will lose 20-25% manpower per hit, LIA about 1/3. I don't recall this a few months back. Would just keep everything (cav included) out in the open, now arti are pretty good against cav too ! Archers are OP against cav and LI, but the human player doesn't have the benefit of a great Line of Sight. Especially cav. need more LOS. Now, 1 enemy spots you and immediately you're fired upon. When stumbling upon 4-6 archers surrounding the arti....well, goodbye full-gl cavs.

The best way I find to get enemy arty and archers is first, have 2 CAVS in your army. 2nd try hide all your HI behind a obstacle and try leave LI/LIA up or behind  HI, 3rd after enemy melee your HI send your CAV (try to ignore any melee unit) and go for arty and archers, and last use your LI/LIA for flanking.

The reason of leaving LI/LIA behind HI or up there is to exploit AI dumbness, ranged units tent to rather shoot LIA and LI and is you hide they behind your HI ranged get too close and possible melee your HI trying find an angle to shoot your LI/LIA or start shooting your hard HI and FF it own units and the reason of why send CAV after enemies melee you is because now melee units are engaged especially fast and deadly enemy CAV will be easier for your CAV to avoid enemy melee units and can go directly to take down enemy arty and archers (this is the best way to kill elven arty)

Another tips: NEVER TRAIN UNITS OR SEND LOW LEVEL OR BAD GEARED UNITS WHILE DOING SUICIDALS OR INSANE

- Try put heroes in your LIA to avoid annihilation, and retreat units with low morale not always high casualties to avoid enemy cause you shivering and LOC (they will recover some morale is they rally up).

- Avoid shooting engaged units especially dwarven HI you will just hurt yourself.

- Try use double cover (is you are enough lucky to find one) to prevent arty shoot you for example there is an obstacle on left up and there is another a little more down and right that will protect you from long ranged attacks for example

obstacle 1 (you hide your units behind this one) "T"
obstacle 2 (this one will block LOS of arty)----------"B"

Juggernaut wrote:

Another tips: NEVER TRAIN UNITS OR SEND LOW LEVEL OR BAD GEARED UNITS WHILE DOING SUICIDALS OR INSANE

Aww, where is the fun in that.

My suicidal setup:
2 HI
2 LI
a unit in training
1 Cav
4 archers

No hiding needed, except a little with the cav.

My best suicidal setup:

-4 HI
-2 LI
-2 LIA
-2 CAV

My secondary suicidal setup while running suicidal with 2 twin armies usually hard to run the 2nd for lack of level to gear items

-2 HI
-2 LI
-2 LIA
-2 CAV
-2 Ranged

There was an upgrade which substantially increased the speed of the bolt thrower. The elven artillery from that became very useful moving so fast, being the lack of speed one of the disadvantages of the artillery, overall in bad terrains. It is also true that their archers are more dangerous though.
Many upgrades though made their race very effective in battle.

Personally, i think that indirect fire without LOS needed is far more useful in battle, but if so many players tell that light artillery is more dangerous than it should be founded.

When dark artillery strikes in number, 2,3, 4 or even 5 units, the result is outstanding, overall when i field a full ranged army. My units are vaporized. Against strong and fast melee those armies are easily wiped out for with few melee getting the artys is quicker, but always with many casualties on the ground.

So, if direct fire is more accurate the indirect fire is an advantage. Also the wider splash damage is useful in my pov. Maybe they need just a little balance in damage dealt. The difference between the average victories per player should have a reason, maybe it is in the artillery even if i believe it is in the OPness of the elves hehe (my dwarf soul never shuts up).

It is also true that im seeing that the gap between the 2 sides in the average number of victories is getting more little day by day, and this is a good sign of health by the dark side (it is also true that the statistic is influenced by many variables, not last the farmers which alter the calculation).

I use different armies
1. Range 6 hi + 4 archers, average time 2 min
2. Melee army 5 hi, 3 lia, 2 li, average time 2 min
3. Melee army for fun (mostly when i chose a solo instead a coop) 6 li/lia + 2 cav + 2 archers.
4. My old team 4 hi, 3 lia, 2 li, 2 cav, cav to destroy arty and kill some archers, now cav is rather useless due to archers OP.

Ulf as Run said the % of victories/loses on both sides is about 98-99%, very few loses. When i started doing insane and suicides it was really hard to win, I lost many times. With high lvl units and lots of gls I rarely lose. I lost 1 solo against light army (damn little dwarfs).

To me, the scenario with the OP'ness of Light Faction artillery just leads to constant repetition(using cav's to try to take them out as you said Juggernaut), it doesn't even make the battles that much harder, it just makes battles that more annoying, to the point where you start to wonder - "why do I keep playing this damn game, when it makes me want to punch myself in the balls all the time?!".

If a player wants a tough battle then enter PvP! I basically just want to get the cp's and get to see what kind of drop I'm getting(It's very primitive I know, but its somehow very rewarding xD)

The same could be said when it comes to FoW. I still play the way I used to before FoW was implemented, now I just have to ride around looking for a stupid piece of light faction artillery stuck on the corner of an obstacle somewhere whilst it is mysteriously able to annihilate my troops in the process(WTH!). If I was hunting down dark faction artillery, I could pretty much just park my troops and watch the artillery shoot left and right without hitting anything important - a piece of cake really and that is what is bothering me the most and its also why I think more Light Faction players stay in the game, its less bothersome fighting Dark Faction troops and that is not alright!   

Bobo it used to be just like that for lighties fighting dark arti before fow, plain annoying. I certainly see how elven arti took that spot now.

Tibr wrote:

Bobo it used to be just like that for lighties fighting dark arti before fow, plain annoying. I certainly see how elven arti took that spot now.

Yeah I thankfully never experienced that myself xD

AI mechanism for advance currently relies on targeting a players units. Change AI mechanism to find (establish LoS) player units by scouting and then once LoS is established the old mechanism/targeting kick in FOR UNITS SEEN.

It is silly that either artillery can shoot either faction through FoW without establishing LoS. Anyone wishing to argue against this will have to convince me their is a rational reason for the AI to follow fundamentally different rules, good luck ;P.

Re; dark artillery accuracy. I can take five of them to a co-op and watch them miss 8/10 combined shots on the first unit. I can also take five of them to a co-op and watch them hit 4/5 first shots. It's VERY random. Kiting an HI w/cav I am likely to hit my cav at least once before hitting the the HI. Dark artillery has a LOT of scatter.

LSLarry wrote:

AI mechanism for advance currently relies on targeting a players units.  Change AI mechanism to find (establish LoS) player units by scouting and then once LoS is established the old mechanism/targeting kick in FOR UNITS SEEN.

It is silly that either artillery can shoot either faction through FoW without establishing LoS.  Anyone wishing to argue against this will have to convince me their is a rational reason for the AI to follow fundamentally different rules, good luck ;P.

Re; dark artillery accuracy.  I can take five of them to a co-op and watch them miss 8/10 combined shots on the first unit.  I can also take five of them to a co-op and watch them hit 4/5 first shots.  It's VERY random.  Kiting an HI w/cav I am likely to hit my cav at least once before hitting the the HI.  Dark artillery has a LOT of scatter.

Dark arty work better with ground shot sometimes, because enemy is rushing to you so you know that enemy go where your units are, (there is some kind of bug) that allow you see what you kill with ground shot, you just need see the bottom of the map and you will see lots of corpses there, (top for the ligthies) is you start killing archers you should try keep shooting they because usually archers always ball up and are in middle of all units and you will use the AOE at maximum efficiency and in elven case this really is the best way to take down bolt thrower without risking nothing, is you hit elven archers with arty is very possible hit bolt throwers too

Boboknack wrote:

To me, the scenario with the OP'ness of Light Faction artillery just leads to constant repetition(using cav's to try to take them out as you said Juggernaut), it doesn't even make the battles that much harder, it just makes battles that more annoying, to the point where you start to wonder - "why do I keep playing this damn game, when it makes me want to punch myself in the balls all the time?!".

If a player wants a tough battle then enter PvP! I basically just want to get the cp's and get to see what kind of drop I'm getting(It's very primitive I know, but its somehow very rewarding xD)

The same could be said when it comes to FoW. I still play the way I used to before FoW was implemented, now I just have to ride around looking for a stupid piece of light faction artillery stuck on the corner of an obstacle somewhere whilst it is mysteriously able to annihilate my troops in the process(WTH!). If I was hunting down dark faction artillery, I could pretty much just park my troops and watch the artillery shoot left and right without hitting anything important - a piece of cake really and that is what is bothering me the most and its also why I think more Light Faction players stay in the game, its less bothersome fighting Dark Faction troops and that is not alright!   

I am just trying to give you strategics to play better and be able to defeat the AI, but I am no longer trying to nerf or boost units there, I want the balance, but devs are on vacation and for months we have talked about ranged units OP and light arty being so powerful and dark arty being useless but seems pointless is anything don´t get done, I mention again the best solution from arty (kuba say that) is leave players of both factions choose what kind of arty they want.

1. Need LOS have small AoE but have high accuracy and concentrated damage (like light arty)

2. Don´t need LOS, big AoE but have low accuracy and disperse damage (like dark arty)