the unit ball is back

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

Ball up usually is only lethal when is a UD naked LI ball but adding more penalties to ball up can be a pain in PVE because enemies rushing to you usually force you to ball up on they and I want remove the movement penaltie for cav when moving so close its really annoying get caught by enemy cav because mine are running so close and lose speed and spreating they when there is only one way to scape isnt the best idea

I thought there already was a penalty for balling up? Both in movement and melee.

Maybe the penalty needs slightly increased or there is a bug causing the melee penalty not to register? Though I haven't seen the ball up strategy in action since volume and the penalty was added, so I can't say for sure what the problem could be.

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

No offense to Ulises and Legolas but me and Vmomo actually find it funny how many times they have balled up against us in a 2v2. It surprised us both that they would prefer balling up instead of the mass flanking potential they had. At this point I feel like mass flanking is better than balling up if you have more units.

My way of dealing with it to take Heroed HIs and put them in a bottleneck.The enemy generally attacks all your HI Than use your LI to flank (since the enemy takes a lot of units they are ungeared and easy to kill )
P.S.You cant complain about every tactic that feels wrong to your.Deal with it ,mate

Scaren wrote:

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

No offense to Ulises and Legolas but me and Vmomo actually find it funny how many times they have balled up against us in a 2v2. It surprised us both that they would prefer balling up instead of the mass flanking potential they had. At this point I feel like mass flanking is better than balling up if you have more units.

Vs 2 skellies it's actually a bit harder, they don't flee... Without ranged units, it was really too hard.

I'm bringing that up on behalf of others. I have never had a problem with unitballs, not even before volume. But I played with lego as a partner and he balls up all the time and I felt that his unitball accompanied by one of my capped hi in the front was way too powerfull. I think vmomo and strachu can agree on that, even if their way of dealing with it wasn't perfect.
I don't recall a melee penalty for balled up units. If this already is the case, could somebody please verify that.

Scaren wrote:

No offense to Ulises and Legolas but me and Vmomo actually find it funny how many times they have balled up against us in a 2v2. It surprised us both that they would prefer balling up instead of the mass flanking potential they had. At this point I feel like mass flanking is better than balling up if you have more units.

You and Vmomo vs Ulises and Legolas in a melee based match is a bad example. You have at least 4 or 5 capped HI's on your side and they have none. If they could pull off a win with any strategy I would be surprised.

Balling up 8 dolo's in PVE lets me be pretty darn reckless, regardless of difficulty. I think it is safe to say the unit ball has been back since people realized that moving units quickly negated the effect of volume... (And that there is no melee penalty. They chew through stuff.)

Volume was supposed to address balling by not letting people stack their units. People complained about how hard it became to engage with units. Pathfinding and tbh FoW at the same time were probably the worst thing going... So we got this 'sorta' volume. Where physics only counts when people are standing still....

My summary then and now was "Learn some formations and tactics, volume is easy..."(Ok the pathfinding really was bad... volume is less easy). I still believe unit balls are mostly prevalent not due to their effectiveness but because players are lazy and want to avoid micromanagement.

I liked the volume and was sad to see it replaced with nothing more than movement penalty. All this prevents is players stacking units behind terrain that feasibly shouldn't hide them, not unit balling.

Its a lot more different to before. Volume works, no doubt. I wouldnt want it changed much, as it already is very noticeable while moving, forming up and attacking. It may need 10-15% increase to make balls less interesting.
A significant melee penalty would be needed to entirely remove balls, that would also mean that this effect would be noticeable in every battle. Battles turn chaotic, every second unit would start suffering from it.

Conclusion: volume increase > melee penalty.

Anyway speed penaltie is a nuisance especially when you are persuing fleeing units with 2 units for example 2 LIA persuing 1 elven archer you never touch they

And there are other big disavandtages of balling up like ball up when arty or archers are shooting you isnt a good idea   

I think I know why balling up is so efficient, its because units with lower melee, endurance and armor (naked or bad geared units) are targeted first by units in a melee for example lego have like 4/3 geared units and then only naked LI/LIA I can see my units dont touch his geared HI until they killed all the naked units first but when that happen my units are already gone and his geared HI still close of full health

If his HI is taking /some/ damage then I would guess the attacks distribute randomly across all available units. A geared HI is just a lot more likely to soak a hit than a naked LI/LIA. The HI will also keep it's morale nice and high to avoid "shaking" or whatever it is that causes melee penalties, making it tougher again. In the same # of hits to a unit, you just kill a lot more LI/LIA.

I would like some dev confirmation that units either target or attack randomly though, good point!

Claudandus wrote:

I'm bringing that up on behalf of others. I have never had a problem with unitballs, not even before volume. But I played with lego as a partner and he balls up all the time and I felt that his unitball accompanied by one of my capped hi in the front was way too powerfull. I think vmomo and strachu can agree on that, even if their way of dealing with it wasn't perfect.
I don't recall a melee penalty for balled up units. If this already is the case, could somebody please verify that.

I don't think there is a melee penalty and i'm not sure why there isn't...   

Scaren wrote:

Claudandus wrote:

I'm bringing that up on behalf of others. I have never had a problem with unitballs, not even before volume. But I played with lego as a partner and he balls up all the time and I felt that his unitball accompanied by one of my capped hi in the front was way too powerfull. I think vmomo and strachu can agree on that, even if their way of dealing with it wasn't perfect.
I don't recall a melee penalty for balled up units. If this already is the case, could somebody please verify that.

I don't think there is a melee penalty and i'm not sure why there isn't...   

possibly because the range-units have been buffed a LOT, thus countering melee advantages

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

Only when they implement a kiting penalty.

 

Drennalin wrote:

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

Only when they implement a kiting penalty.

 

There already have been suggested nerf elven archer speed or increase LIA speed cap, and I suggested a delay aim time for the first shot round "the units take much longer in the first shot because he needs aim is he dont stop shooting all other shots will be at normal speed but I was ignored anyway"

Ulises21 wrote:

Drennalin wrote:

Claudandus wrote:

Balling up all your units is back as a cheap shot tactic, almost as dangerous as before.
I think in 1vs1 circumstances a unit ball can be easily dealt with, but in 2vs2 it is too powerfull, to be overcome without light arti.

Is it possible to implement some kind of melee penalty for balled up units, since volume didnt solve the problem?

Only when they implement a kiting penalty.

 

There already have been suggested nerf elven archer speed or increase LIA speed cap, and I suggested a delay aim time for the first shot round "the units take much longer in the first shot because he needs aim is he dont stop shooting all other shots will be at normal speed but I was ignored anyway"

People get ignored here?   I AM SHOCKED