New AI difficulty

Something seems up with the new AI difficulty. All their units seem stronger. Their HI whoop mine even when not equipped with godlikes. Their LI/LIA are even stronger. Archers are supposed to be stronger but they don't seem to FF their own troops. Cavalry are a lot stronger. Maybe it has to do with G.S. of the units or maybe you have all their gear as combat stats only. Something seems up though...

AI Archers have never FF'd their own troops.

Something I always thought needed fixing.

XViper wrote:

AI Archers have never FF'd their own troops.

Something I always thought needed fixing.

Hmm, I could swear I have seen AI ff before.. though that was light archers. Anyways, you could always come back to the Dark Faction Scaren!

The AI units in the COOP do seem very hard to kill, having some really good GL gear for heavy Infantry, my Light infantry, and Cavalry and still getting crushed.

If you add the fact that we all take FF, and the AI units do not the fighting has become unpleasant.

I hope these issues are addressed soon.

ST

XViper wrote:

AI Archers have never FF'd their own troops.

Something I always thought needed fixing.

Not true. At least not visibly true;

if you look at the "kills" "deaths"
for both teams, you'll find that you ALMOST NEVER kill as many AI as (AI) die.

SO, lets say you kill 140 AI

but 158 die in the battle.

that leaves 18 dead units unaccounted for; either "accidental melee kills" (is that even possible? it seems so...) or FF from arty or archers.

I've seen this occur even when No Arty present, so it *must* be AI archers FFing their own units.

Thanks Realf Lantow,

I have actually noticed that and I believe you are correct.

  

ST

@Realf... hmmmm??

I know Arty definitely does FF, but I always thought Archers didn't.

They certainly appear to cause FAR LESS (to the point where I NEVER even notice it) FF on their own units than I do when I shoot into my own guys.

I appear to decimate my own men when I FF. I've had a Cav unit engaged with an AI archer unit, and 3 other units shoot at my Cav. My Cav almost dies instantly, and the archers don't take a single death.

I'd certainly like Dev clarification on AI Archer FF.
I'm HAPPY to eat my words on this one, as I'll be overjoyed to know it actually happens. One bitter taste out of my mouth

The difference between your kills and ai´s losses is always there when you fight undead, because of loc. As for FF, i have seen AI artillery wasting own troops. But even when 4 archer units shot into melee i didnt see the AI unit to suffer from that. So even if there is archer FF it is far weaker than our genuine version.

Just to clear things out.

AI doesn't follow special rules for ranged attacks. FF is valid for the AI as well.

As for the difficulties, we haven't even "touched" the AI army composition/battle difficulty.

Indirect feeling due to gearscore changes then?

XViper wrote:

Indirect feeling due to gearscore changes then?

GS have not been changed. We used the Olympus GS and the AI army uses the same. Therefore the AI army cannot equip more gear than the players. In fact, it only uses as much as probably 70% of the max usable GS and that only on Suicide difficulty.

I just had a cooperative with Tacan. We both brought 5 units to the fight, for a total of ten units...all infantry.

What we found was AT LEAST 12 archer units, 3 HI, 1 LI, 1 Cannon. I believe that that there was another LI and an LIA, but I am not sure, and there may have been even more archers...but lets go with what I am certain of.

The there were at least 17 enemy units with a minimum of 13 ranged units.

I'm pretty sure we had a 0% chance of winning this fight with what we brought...which again, was 10 infantry units (LI/LIA/HI)...maybe if we had a slew of artillery that got very lucky on those archers we could have won.

We did not fight poorly, there was simply too many enemy units...more specifically, too many ranged units with a perfect amount of infantry.

In the past this was not problematic...it was actually very easy because you saw it coming and could destroy those archers one by one under a ball of death. Now, even if you see it coming you have to maneuver just so...and even then you cant engage them all...so you die under the hail of arrows.

This might not be common, but the difficulty is beyond that offered in suicides IMO....that should not be the case.

I also feel it... yes, I'm starting to get inactive, but my last few suicidals were very hard.

Cavalry are boosted too much, they were already OK, with already high movement and doing exceptional damage on LI HI, re-nerf them :/


GS hasn't really affected me, at least on suicidal since all I bring are capped units with high GS.


I did (before Hades) a easy mode, to level up ranged units. My composition was 4 archers, 4 artillery, 1 HI, and 1 LI. I faced tons of archers O.o 15 + with 5 - 10 + melee.



I also remember this game, being so fun... with no GS or 'LvL'... but, well, to bad, noobs complained too much :/

I'm sorry but the game has become utter crap, almost no one is in the Co-op queue, and If I am lucky to get in a battle, we get swarmed with level 10 HI and loads of archers, whilst my troops are still running left and right like chickens(Forget scouting ahead the AI knows where we are anyways!).

I've tried everything, doesn't matter how I twist and turn my troops, it's always the same amount of unit loss or a defeat. I'm sorry but I'm about to move on, why play a bugged game that doesn't know on which foot it should stand? hope some of the new players are somehow able to ride this phase out or else the only activity the game will see is the old-timers complaining about the ranking system on faction chat and in the forum and rightfully so I may add. What a buzzkill the merger has become.  

I don't know if its volume or FoW or BOTH but it is getting way harder to win. I can't help units that are in trouble because i have to walk around them, and if i try to retreat a unit that's losing and replace it, it retreats into the enemy because it can't seem to retreat through its relief, which means it dies instead of being saved. VERY annoying to lose that experience. And when i look at the screen i can see gaps, but my units won't go through them because the "volume" is in the way but i can't see it to account for it. the AI knows all this stuff accounts for it and "knows" where i am and what i'm doing. Its definately affecting my activity in the game.

ferarith wrote:

I don't know if its volume or FoW or BOTH but it is getting way harder to win. I can't help units that are in trouble because i have to walk around them, and if i try to retreat a unit that's losing and replace it, it retreats into the enemy because it can't seem to retreat through its relief, which means it dies instead of being saved. VERY annoying to lose that experience.  And when i look at the screen i can see gaps, but my units won't go through them because the "volume" is in the way but i can't see it to account for it. the AI knows all this stuff accounts for it and "knows" where i am and what i'm doing. Its definately affecting my activity in the game.

Yeah spot on. Just lost on normal difficulty btw. I think I'm going inactive for a while, the game is a pain in the neck right now, besides I don't even see any joy from either faction that we've just clashed, the game is without excitement only the bugged gameplay and "rankings" is being discussed!  

I can appreciate the overall difficulty is abit harder, but I cant imagine losing on normal difficulty? Unless you're running naked?

XViper wrote:

I can appreciate the overall difficulty is abit harder, but I cant imagine losing on normal difficulty? Unless you're running naked?

Perhaps the coop paradox is occurring...where the AP is about right...but to accomplish this there are 2 dozen units, half are pinning him down or forcing him to take the scenic route while the other half are practicing their death by 1000 needles techniques.

Ahh, now I just realized why the one and only co-op I've did on Hades was soo easy... I brought fully capped units! But even then did I not even get good performance O.o

I agree with Boboknack. This.. such beauty of a game turned hard, the devs thinking we'd be enthusiastic of losing and losing then winning then losing then losing and all.

For me to even do 5 battles a day, I'd want collision to be removed and AI units not knowing where we are.... that SHOULD make the game funner. Because I believe the merge updates were to make the AI have fun, not us lol xD

Just a heads up...because nobody actually mentioned it.

Units can pass through other units now, and the trouble you had with the movement should not be there any longer.

Granted the AI needs some tweaking...but it is all on you now.

The AI difficulty has not been increased, which proves the point that knowing exactly the composition of the enemy and where the units are moving, made it extremely easy to win on Olympus/Erevos. I've personally played several COOPs on Olympus and I must admit that I enjoyed the battles, as I will have to be careful with the positioning of my units and play "safe", until I know what the enemy is bringing.

I would recommend "knowing thy enemy" first, scout to find out what the enemy is bringing, while you have positioned your units in a formation that can handle an attack. Same rules apply, so take advantage of the terrain and don't allow enemy ranged units to decimate your units.

RuneSlayer
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:02 am  
Just a heads up...because nobody actually mentioned it.

Units can pass through other units now, and the trouble you had with the movement should not be there any longer.

Granted the AI needs some tweaking...but it is all on you now.

jes but the units are still moving in wrong direktions in  batlle and losing time or doing not what they supposed to.

And AI arti can hide in most batlles in the FoW till the fight is almost over that makes the most damage

the own cav cant focus on killing the AI arti as fast as possible in most battles cose it has to work as "eye" for the own arti.while the AI cav and arti dont need that.The NPC knows excatly where the players are.FOW AND UNIT-Volume in PVE\Coops are making this and if people dont like it they have to recognize that this is the issue.

me in Private i never liked FoW in Pve or the unit-volume and at last the ranking system based on fame took my last movitation away.Now that we have more players on hades thx to merge it seems that we can do "such experiments" cose we got enough people who still doing a bit fighting.

But back on Olympus this all would had shown way faster that it kills the players Aktivity (Olympus had not so much players like hades)

So whoever liked FOW\Unit-Volume in PVE\Coop or voted for it ,thats what we got from it.have fun.

(And me in private im not waiting every week for new changes to fix things wich dont belong in game BEFORE they are fixed.
ATM a FoW+UnitVolume in Coop\Pve is a unfixed issue cose the NPC is not affected from FoW and thats it what makes the battle different from before.)

If PVP players like it thats an other thing cose both sides in battle are affected,and me in private im tired of feeling like a experimentel subjek after each second update.(i WAS one of the top-aktive player on olympus,and even if i still can win almost every coop and also the most PVE battles as long as i use the best units and the best equip,doesnt mean that im fighting as much as before cose it take to much time and is way to annoying.)

But its not my game,not my decissions im just the player who need to deal with it, so do what u want.

edit.
Btw im not the only one in my guild who lost motivation cose of FoW,but we got also players who got more motivation now cose they like it...but in All its less fighting and aktivity in guild than before

Bleh, no one will be motivated nor enthusiastic for having harder battles.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Units can pass through other units now, and the trouble you had with the movement should not be there any longer.

Bottom line, there's no more collision?

RuneSlayer wrote:

The AI difficulty has not been increased. Which proves the point that knowing exactly the composition of the enemy and where the units are moving, made it extremely easy to win on Olympus/Erevos.

AI has definitely  been increased. If not, explain this.
Before Hades, I've been doing suicidal. Bringing 3 000 AP and facing around 3 300 - 4 200 of enemy AP. Now, with 3 000 AP, I've been facing 4 000 - 4 200 AP enemies.

RuneSlayer wrote:

(the AI difficulty has not been increased) Which proves the point that knowing exactly the composition of the enemy and where the units are moving, made it extremely easy to win on Olympus/Erevos.

Yes, we did know. But your conclusion to this problem is not letting players see the enemy, and the enemy sees you? That's getting hit with both sides with a double edged sword for us O.o

RuneSlayer wrote:

I've personally played several COOPs on Olympus and I must admit that I enjoyed the battles, as I will have to be careful with the positioning of my units and play "safe", until I know what the enemy is bringing.

Playing 'safe' isn't fun, and it's too late to react once you see the enemy. And hmm, can I ask, did you bring 10 units?

RuneSlayer wrote:

I would recommend "knowing thy enemy" first, scout to find out what the enemy is bringing, while you have positioned your units in a formation that can handle an attack. Same rules apply, so take advantage of the terrain and don't allow enemy ranged units to decimate your units.

You're making this game like survival. All we want is something not too easy nor not too hard, but just right for enjoying.

Steinhund wrote:

jes but the units are still moving in wrong direktions in batlle and losing time or doing not what they supposed to.

You have to be a bit more specific, because we haven't experienced such an issue after the last update. Units move freely, but they cannot be placed inside each other and in engagement they cannot pass through the engaged units to engage the enemy, otherwise it becomes a tactic of sending all your units against one enemy unit. We don't want that, do we?

Steinhund wrote:

And AI arti can hide in most batlles in the FoW till the fight is almost over that makes the most damage

the cav cant focuse on killing the AI arti as fast as possible in most battles cose it has to work as "eye" for the own arti.while the AI cav and arti dont need that.The NPC knows excatly where the players are.FOW AND UNIT-Volume in PVE\Coops are making this and if people dont like it they have to recognize that this is the issue.

Yes, that is true...but it is what it is. If you cannot find it, then it will continue raining fire at your units. However, we do understand that the AI needs some tweaking and it shall receive it. No objection there.

Steinhund wrote:

and me in private im tired of feeling like a experimentel subjek after each second update.(i WAS one of the top-aktive player on olympus,and even if i still can win almost every coop and also the most PVE battles as long as i use the best units and the best equip,doesnt mean that im fighting as much as before cose it take to much time and is way to annoying.)

I am sorry you are feeling that way Steinhund. We do not consider you or anyone else an experimental subject, but a player of BC and part of its Community. As Battle Conquest is an ever evolving world, sometimes, some things, will not go as planned, and the burden is on us to provide the solutions. I can assure you that we are working towards resolving the issues at hand and more specifically the AI. As for FOW/volume, this is something we strongly support, as it has improved the battle and added more tactics/strategy in the game.

Savvage wrote:

Bleh, no one will be motivated nor enthusiastic for having harder battles.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Units can pass through other units now, and the trouble you had with the movement should not be there any longer.

Bottom line, there's no more collision?

RuneSlayer wrote:

The AI difficulty has not been increased. Which proves the point that knowing exactly the composition of the enemy and where the units are moving, made it extremely easy to win on Olympus/Erevos.

AI has definitely  been increased. If not, explain this.
Before Hades, I've been doing suicidal. Bringing 3 000 AP and facing around 3 300 - 4 200 of enemy AP. Now, with 3 000 AP, I've been facing 4 000 - 4 200 AP enemies.

RuneSlayer wrote:

(the AI difficulty has not been increased) Which proves the point that knowing exactly the composition of the enemy and where the units are moving, made it extremely easy to win on Olympus/Erevos.

Yes, we did know. But your conclusion to this problem is not letting players see the enemy, and the enemy sees you? That's getting hit with both sides with a double edged sword for us O.o

RuneSlayer wrote:

I've personally played several COOPs on Olympus and I must admit that I enjoyed the battles, as I will have to be careful with the positioning of my units and play "safe", until I know what the enemy is bringing.

Playing 'safe' isn't fun, and it's too late to react once you see the enemy. And hmm, can I ask, did you bring 10 units?

RuneSlayer wrote:

I would recommend "knowing thy enemy" first, scout to find out what the enemy is bringing, while you have positioned your units in a formation that can handle an attack. Same rules apply, so take advantage of the terrain and don't allow enemy ranged units to decimate your units.

You're making this game like survival. All we want is something not too easy nor not too hard, but just right for enjoying.

The AI army composition algo has not changed. That is a fact...everything is else is fiction.

I always bring 9-10 units.

The problem is that several players were used to a certain gameplay and suddenly that gameplay changed. Not everybody will like it and some will even quit. This is understandable and we respect that. We do understand that the AI needs tweaking, and this will happen very soon, but the old system is not coming back. FOW is here to stay.

RuneSlayer wrote:

As for FOW/volume, this is something we strongly support, as it has improved the battle and added more tactics/strategy in the game.

Here's my thoughts on game modes.

On solos, I don't do it for fun.
I do it for XP, CP, resources, and fragments.
Now with this FoW and collision, I can't do them in a steady pace, I can't even do what I don't like doing

On co-ops, I do it for fun.
I don't do it for... I like everything there is to co-op
Now with this FoW and collision, I can't do it happily without nasty unwanted surprises.

On PvPs, I do it for fun.
Now, with FoW and collision, it's way more fun. I prefer PvP as it is now, with FoW and collision. They even made PvPing even more fun!

BUT, don't compare PvPs with solos.