Races and Balance

This has been an ongoing discussion, mainly because of UD opness and some races overall weakness. But I think even after the intented nerf for UD and buff for DL we are not quite there yet. In order to bring everybody on the same page allowing informed contributions to the discussion it is a necessity that we have the most accurate and recent overview of all units and races stats, caps and AP.

We need an updated version of this:

http://www.battleconforum.com/t587p45-new-stat-caps-poll


I would like everybody who has some time on his hand and an interest in racial balance to update this chart on the community wiki to his or hers best knowledge:

http://battleconquest.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_stats,_AP_and_caps_overview

I started the chart and will fill in the blanks for UD units, when I have some time on my hand.

Did what I could for DL....as it turns out, I couldn't do much.   

Does anyone remember how much AP is added through one +3 research? And do melee and armor add the same AP through the techs? I will update the dwarves as best as I can.

melee research +9 adds 11 AP. Armor research +12 adds 8 AP.

Filled out dwarves.

To be honest, even as the guy who uses all his time on the wiki, I think it's kinda pointless to do the AP stat now. If people are willing to contribute it, I have no complaints, but be aware that it's quite possible that numbers will be outdated within a couple weeks.

Tops wrote:

To be honest, even as the guy who uses all his time on the wiki, I think it's kinda pointless to do the AP stat now. If people are willing to contribute it, I have no complaints, but be aware that it's quite possible that numbers will be outdated within a couple weeks.

I don't mind keeping tabs on the dwarven stats. Hopefully soon I can cap out more of my LI's stats to find the cap. Right now capping Dwarven HI endurance and armor is not possible for me. Even with a +24 artifact with endurance and +25 endurance armor. I can only get to 93 so hopefully with a few more levels up I can cap him. I can always craft more gear as long as I continue to win pvp and gain more frags.

Scaren wrote:

Tops wrote:

To be honest, even as the guy who uses all his time on the wiki, I think it's kinda pointless to do the AP stat now. If people are willing to contribute it, I have no complaints, but be aware that it's quite possible that numbers will be outdated within a couple weeks.

I don't mind keeping tabs on the dwarven stats. Hopefully soon I can cap out more of my LI's stats to find the cap. Right now capping Dwarven HI endurance and armor is not possible for me. Even with a +24 artifact with endurance and +25 endurance armor. I can only get to 93 so hopefully with a few more levels up I can cap him. I can always craft more gear as long as I continue to win pvp and gain more frags.

We need those charts to finally discuss balance properly. My guess would be that caps have been unaltered for dwarven HI, so it is still 100.

Some AP values of the old chart are already outdated. LIA stats are mentioned nowhere, but they have usually the same caps as LI.
We are very well aware of the fact that after the nerfs and buffs coming those AP values and other values might be outdated, but isnt that what a wiki is for to be changed by informed users when necessary.

Whoever has filled in the blanks for dwarven units. I doubt the AP values are correct. Could you or somebody else recheck this?

It just doesnt seem right. From the information I got from other dwarves. LI should have 50 AP. LIA 60. HI 155.

And I think it is best when the health is considered as health of all troops combined. So usually 20/20/16/40/16/4

Um... All I see on the wiki page is blanks! I was going to contribute stats of elves that I know but first it may help to know why it went blank...

Bobba wrote:

Um... All I see on the wiki page is blanks! I was going to contribute stats of elves that I know but first it may help to know why it went blank...

It's blank so you can fill it in.

Scaren wrote:

Bobba wrote:

Um... All I see on the wiki page is blanks! I was going to contribute stats of elves that I know but first it may help to know why it went blank...

It's blank so you can fill it in.

I couldn't see anything except a 1 under attacks/troop for human LI and every other race and unit was all blank. But it seems to be working now.

Bobba wrote:

Scaren wrote:

Bobba wrote:

Um... All I see on the wiki page is blanks! I was going to contribute stats of elves that I know but first it may help to know why it went blank...

It's blank so you can fill it in.

I couldn't see anything except a 1 under attacks/troop for human LI and every other race and unit was all blank. But it seems to be working now.

Checking it now, I see a bunch of blanks too. Edits were definitely made, not sure what is going on (it is in the history)...I've not looked at this too thoroughly though.

Attacks/Troop means how many attacks a single guy of this unit can do per round. We cant actually test that ourselves, so we will just have to rely on the accuracy of the devs original chart on that one and seek additional confirmation.

See here again:
http://www.battleconforum.com/t587p45-new-stat-caps-poll

I think Attacks/Troop is the main reason why nobody uses dwarven ironfort right now. It can only swing 3 attacks per round total. Whereas any other cavalry unit can do 6 (2 troop cavs) or 8(4 troop cavs) attacks each round. That seems not quite balanced to me. Lowering the AP of dwarven ironfort wont change anything about that.

That is only one of the topics we could discuss once the blanks are filled in.

Claudandus wrote:

Attacks/Troop means how many attacks a single guy of this unit can do per round. We cant actually test that ourselves, so we will just have to rely on the accuracy of the devs original chart on that one and seek additional confirmation.

See here again:
http://www.battleconforum.com/t587p45-new-stat-caps-poll

I think Attacks/Troop is the main reason why nobody uses dwarven ironfort right now. It can only swing 3 attacks per round total. Whereas any other cavalry unit can do 6 (2 troop cavs) or 8(4 troop cavs) attacks each round. That seems not quite balanced to me. Lowering the AP of dwarven ironfort wont change anything about that.

That is only one of the topics we could discuss once the blanks are filled in.

The ten health doesn't help either.

Ohhh boy... someone edited it while I was editing it and I finished a ton of starting stats for undead and elf. Now I can't change it without erasing their changes it seems... wtf... It shows me what they wrote sort of... but it's in the most basic formatting so I can't see the tables or anything.... now I'm at a dilemma...

edit: Oh nevermind... it was just the page being renamed. This wiki layout (the editing not the wiki itself) is very not user friendly... the help button I clicked even went to a new page entirely and erased the previous page I was on, lucky I could go back to where I was editing it with no problems. I guess I edited it now, hopefully didn't break anything in the process.

Since they are by far the tankiest I dont think that really is the issue here. Maybe a little raise to 12HP but attacks/troop is where they really lack.

Well that's great. All my progress was erased when the page was renamed. Just peachy.

Wiki seems to be functioning again.

Here's the new link by the way, the link in the original post is outdated:

http://battleconquest.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Stats

I made a lot of changes and added all starting stats for elf/undead (and a few caps). Added the attacks/troop for all races and some other minor adjustments.

The link was outdated again . I think we now reached its final stage here:

http://battleconquest.wikia.com/wiki/Stats_and_Caps

The basic AP values for LIA still seem to be not right. I edited UD LIA cause there I knew for a fact that they were wrong. If you have research +9 melee substract 11 AP points and you should arrive at the initial AP of your races LIA.
I'm not sure but I think all LIA start with 10 AP more then their races LI.

Claudandus wrote:

The link was outdated again . I think we now reached its final stage here:

http://battleconquest.wikia.com/wiki/Stats_and_Caps

The basic AP values for LIA still seem to be not right. I edited UD LIA cause there I knew for a fact that they were wrong. If you have research +9 melee substract 11 AP points and you should arrive at the initial AP of your races LIA.
I'm not sure but I think all LIA start with 10 AP more then their races LI.

Wrong. The display for LIA AP is actually wrong (when you mouse over the total AP thing). It's still adding the AP for the armor research when the AP of the unit is actually not having that added. So they are now only 4 AP higher than LI.

They removed the AP from armor research for LIA. Another armor research and my LIA will have the same AP as my LI.
But you are right they havent removed the plus 8 from armor research when you mouseover the LIA AP. Currently it displays a very nice math equation.
55+0+11+8+0=66

I think everybody can see where this went wrong. Will make a bug report .

Claudandus wrote:

They removed the AP from armor research for LIA. Another armor research and my LIA will have the same AP as my LI.
But you are right they havent removed the plus 8 from armor research when you mouseover the LIA AP. Currently it displays a very nice math equation.
55+0+11+8+0=66

I think everybody can see where this went wrong. Will make a bug report .

Ah right, yeah I did get mixed up thanks to the armor bonus (I guess I got excited because I knew the armor was being erroneously added that I forgot units don't start with armor bonus... lol). Thanks for correcting it.

Link changed again: http://battleconquest.wikia.com/wiki/Stats_and_Caps

Also, I fixed the other LIA values I messed up.   

Nice job