The Suicide Challenge

Well, so far, lost my first two suicides.

No archers though, was trying the easy way first ...

So next will try with archers, which will probably succeed.

By the way I face level 19 enemies ...



Score: Suicide AI 2 .vs. 0 Joy

Good luck...

RuneSlayer wrote:

Good luck...

Hmm, thanks ... it a real challenge ... so much appreciated  

.. I can no longer mindlessly rush for sure, have to think & strategize ...

One we can win 20 of these in a row, do we get an even higher difficultly ... like almost impossible

No, after that you just have to prove yourself in the PvP grounds when the Prestige system goes live. 4 Halls (Ranks), 4 unique titles and 4 unlocks (hint: one of them is a unique unit).

FYRR!!! PVP!!!

i can replace him if you want

I've won twice out of 2 on suicide mode, definitely lives up to it's name though! Lengthy heal sessions were needed between matches but the rewards are worth it!

my first suicide battle:
http://prntscr.com/27gsk6

Bobba wrote:

I've won twice out of 2 on suicide mode, definitely lives up to it's name though! Lengthy heal sessions were needed between matches but the rewards are worth it!

my first suicide battle:
http://prntscr.com/27gsk6

Congratz. A bit unlucky there with the fragment you got though...

RuneSlayer wrote:

Congratz. A bit unlucky there with the fragment you got though...

You could always change suicide mode to give one or two fragments, & one guaranteed to be at least a rare

Joyce wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Congratz. A bit unlucky there with the fragment you got though...

You could always change suicide mode to give one or two fragments, & one guaranteed to be at least a rare

And then what should we give as a PvP reward? A Godlike?

I said unlucky, because he was really unlucky...the suicide fragment drops are quite high...

Joyce wrote:

You could always change suicide mode to give one or two fragments, & one guaranteed to be at least a rare

RuneSlayer wrote:

And then what should we give as a PvP reward? A Godlike?

Based on current market values; an epic is valued about 5 times a rare & a Godlike about 3 times an epic.

So a godlike, we both know, would be excessive reward for PvP; even an epic probably excessive.

So ... Maybe two rares¹, for a very hard PvP

I think though the new prestige system ...

RuneSlayer wrote:

No, after that you just have to prove yourself in the PvP grounds when the Prestige system goes live. 4 Halls (Ranks), 4 unique titles and 4 unlocks (hint: one of them is a unique unit).

...  you will be taking care of good rewards for PvP ...

Hence, I don't think the idea of a minimum of rare for suicide mode is unreasonable (since there might not need to be an increase for PvP rewards after the prestige system is live).

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Footnote: ¹Actually, I think a very careful examination by the players of the economy, as we perceive it, would be helpful; more than these little suggestions thrown around here & there ... So I will post, later, a more comprehensive discussion The Econonmy Discussion later.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Joyce wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Congratz. A bit unlucky there with the fragment you got though...

You could always change suicide mode to give one or two fragments, & one guaranteed to be at least a rare

And then what should we give as a PvP reward? A Godlike?

I said unlucky, because he was really unlucky...the suicide fragment drops are quite high...

I'm now 4-0 on suicide mode.

I think I've got a rare on every match but that first one which I got the uncommon banner frag, so yeah, the first one was pretty unlucky.

Matches are close and takes my full PvP gear, and my heroes get destroyed, so definitely really hard despite the fact I haven't lost one yet.

Thanks for these new difficulties, it makes the game a lot more fun at the high level!

Picture on December 1st, 2013 - after Dark faction in quickly took #51, #56, #57, #63 & #64 in last day & half!  ... Light faction just took back #51

Insane & Suicide mode have really changed the balance of power    

Dark faction has become ascendant (more high level players that can do insane & suicide  ) & quickly took five regions from the light faction, slicing through us like butter.

Light faction now has a bonus¹ (for only the second time I am aware of in four months!), and struggled to take back #51 with our bonus.

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Footnote: ¹Until this update, for last few weeks, its mostly been the Dark Faction with the bonus about half the time.

My previous failures was taking a few level 17 troops & getting level 19 enemy!

New team composition:

1. Level 10 Elarin Chariot
   
2. Level 10 Royal Guard + Level 12 Hero (Whirlwind)
   
3. Level 9 Royal Guard + Level 9 Hero (Twirl)
   
4. Level 12 Dragon Longbows
   
5. Level 12 Dragon Longbows + Level 11 Hero (Wall)
   
6. Level 12 Waykeeper + Level 12 Hero (Spring)
   
7. Level 12 Shadow Guard +  Level 14 Hero (Rainbow)
   

This gets me level 15 enemy & my first suicide win

So now, I want to get all the troops to same level (level 12) for a better fight.  I'll keep this team together & slowly level them up together, so they stay about the same level.

Also maybe the level 14 hero is too high level (I was hoping for level 14 enemy, not level 15) -- so next time I will try a lower level hero.

They key is keeping the troops about the same level & lot & lots of good items; then of course good strategy.

Finally, a big thank you to Kubasaka, who helped me figure out how to win at Suicide

This remind me of one thing. Maybe it would be possible to make some changes at conquer points.

For example lets take suicidal mode. Now everyone with barracks 23-25 get 140-160 points. However one player can fight against 13lvl units and another against 18 lvl units (which are much more dangerous). I know that rewards are greater in second case but cp should be different too.

I have 2 propositions:

1. Force player to bring 10 units to suicidal and make cp rewards constant (indepedent from ap):
for beating units:
lvl 20 - 160 cp
lvl 19 - 150 cp
lvl 18 - 140 cp
lvl 17 - 130 cp
lvl 16 - 120 cp
lvl 15 - 110 cp
lvl 14 - 100 cp (this will be the lowest lvl of suicidal enemy units)

Something similar might be done with insane difficulty.


2. Hardcore version. 160 cp for everyone. Enemy army is generated for 10 player units (Player may bring less unit to battle). Enemy units lvl is always 20. It will be real suicide battle

Joyce wrote:

One we can win 20 of these in a row, do we get an even higher difficultly ... like almost impossible

kuba_ wrote:

2. Hardcore version. 160 cp for everyone. Enemy army is generated for 10 player units (Player may bring less unit to battle). Enemy units lvl is always 20. It will be real suicide battle

Lets leave current suicide mode alone for at least a few weeks while we learn it!

As for your second suggestion, +1 and call it 'almost impossible' mode or 'truly hardcore' mode, or some other real challenging name

Maybe even do this as a cooperative instead like 'the deadly cooperative' (with your level 20 idea) - so would need two or three people to win at this mode.

I really like the idea of a super hard Co-op mode!

If you do it cooperative then all balance will be ruined. There will be some veteran players who will be able constantly coop for 160cp points each

As for your first suggestion, nooooo! I can't win suicide mode with 10 units, I'd need multiple more barracks upgrades! I have to use 9 units to gear myself appropriately.

As for the second suggestion, noooo! Maybe a challenge quest of that for the highest level players only would be great, but I don't think that should be suicide mode.

That said, I feel like I am having an easier time beating it than other people who have leveled up more than me. It seems fair enough that at least CP would be influenced by the level of the enemy, so that people who face off the harder opponents would get more CP than me if they win. It just seems a bit unfair that as you level up you have to take more and more gear to win, which DOES earn you more resources, but I think it should also give you more drop rate and CP too (or more specifically, lower level enemies should give less CP, as I can already get 145 or so CP in suicide mode. I should probably be getting like 130 instead while those fighting higher levels should get 145-160).

For reference, my units I use are between level 8-13 and I fight enemies with this composition: http://prntscr.com/280kxj
(Not pictured is a cavalry with 3 GLs, though I forget what it's level was).

On another note, I just lost my first suicide mode, because my enemies split up and a spider webbed one of my LIA+hero which got ripped apart in no time making my new record 4-1.

kuba_ wrote:

If you do it cooperative then all balance will be ruined. There will be some veteran players who will be able constantly coop for 160cp points each

Make it use command points then

Joyce wrote:

kuba_ wrote:

If you do it cooperative then all balance will be ruined. There will be some veteran players who will be able constantly coop for 160cp points each

Make it use command points then

Then players will choose solo because its faster.

And about AP limit. I belive this limit is little too low. I always take 10 units to suicide and usually two or three are naked due to ap limit.

Currently AP is VERY MUCH off ballance. The AP limits from barracks are old, from times when the maximal level was 15.

At lvl 25 barracks you dont even get 3000 AP.

Since i dont have all research done yet i have to estimate the numbers for lvl 20 units, they get about +4 AP per level, and heroes +5 per level past 12, should be very close to the truth.

Elven Hi 280, Cav 335, Hero 120, Arti 250, average light unit 160.

Now try to make a useful combination.

How about 2 Hi, 2 Cav, 6 light units, 5 heroes - sounds ballanced and realistic.

At lvl 20 they would cost 2790 AP

And now remember they are still naked.


But you will face lvl 20 enemies that have to fullfill their difficulty expectations and gear their gear score ... being fully godlike. So the higher your units get the harder it becomes to run suicide? This cant be meant to happen. We have a HUGE flaw in the AP Barracks scaling, it has to go up by at least 20%. And we have not included special units into the equation.

Tibr wrote:

Currently AP is VERY MUCH off ballance. The AP limits from barracks are old, from times when the maximal level was 15.

At lvl 25 barracks you dont even get 3000 AP.

Since i dont have all research done yet i have to estimate the numbers for lvl 20 units, they get about +4 AP per level, and heroes +5 per level past 12, should be very close to the truth.

Elven Hi 280, Cav 335, Hero 120, Arti 250, average light unit 160.

Now try to make a useful combination.

How about 2 Hi, 2 Cav, 6 light units, 5 heroes - sounds ballanced and realistic.

At lvl 20 they would cost 2790 AP

And now remember they are still naked.


But you will face lvl 20 enemies that have to fullfill their difficulty expectations and gear their gear score ... being fully godlike. So the higher your units get the harder it becomes to run suicide? This cant be meant to happen. We have a HUGE flaw in the AP Barracks scaling, it has to go up by at least 20%. And we have not included special units into the equation.

Very well said Tibr.

AP increases for the higher level barracks definitely need to be increased.

RuneSlayer wrote:

The cap was always 25. The market adjusted the prices. Wink

Runeslayer posted that in response to me asking if buildings were originally 15 or something.

Buildings were never level 15 always 25 from the very beginning. I don't know about AP values too much but it only seems it needs to be adjusted in response to the higher difficulty modes.