Archers much power

I find them way to much powerful.
Cav are useless because they got killed (half hp) in distance. When they engage archers they take too many damage from melle + other archer(s) which is/are fireing.

It's a first impression but I already had it (and said it) on the test server.
And they are doing too much damage on HI too..

I agree with Naz.Was so happy to get my Cav finally.And now they flee or get killed in every battle.

Were Archers buffed in melee?

While Archer missile strength was increased, their range was reduced.

Archers were so under used previously, the changes gives them more purpose and utility. Archers were never meant to be made 'useless' by any piece of GL armour.

Guess undergeared DL cavs? Mine used to die even before. Not a big change really, archers aren't even close to being OP.
cavs though... just don't charge so much? (i still charge and die ;p), not the change to blame.

Archer melee is the same.. or at least feels the same.

Fyrr wrote:

Guess undergeared DL cavs? Mine used to die even before. Not a big change really, archers aren't even close to being OP.
cavs though... just don't charge so much? (i still charge and die ;p), not the change to blame.

Archer melee is the same.. or at least feels the same.

Well i don't consider 2 gl items min on cav to be ungeared Fyr.

Viper, it's not about the melle but it's about the time to reach the archers + the others archers which keep shooting while in melee

Naz_ wrote:

the others archers which keep shooting while in melee

Archers shooting while in melee...?

other archer rune,

Another unit if you want..
without FF

And, i don't say they're OP. I just say that vs CAV they are too powerful to make cav worthly in battle

Naz_ wrote:

other archer rune,

Another unit if you want..
without FF

And, i don't say they're OP. I just say that vs CAV they are too powerful to make cav worthly in battle

I wouldn't attack with a cav head on against 2-3 units of ranged units. Can ...be...painful..

However...cavalry can be used to scout...destroy artillery units...and even flank/rear....

Choose "where" you will fight...don't allow your "opponent" to choose the place and time..

Naz_ wrote:

I find them way to much powerful.
Cav are useless because they got killed (half hp) in distance. When they engage archers they take too many damage from melle + other archer(s) which is/are fireing.

It's a first impression but I already had it (and said it) on the test server.
And they are doing too much damage on HI too..

We need to know WHAT battle type you're speaking about.

AND build composition,

enemy levels,

how many cavs?

how many archers?


ACTUALLY... I find my own (COOP) results exactly the opposite of what you are saying; my own archers are virtually USELESS now, since the enemy melee units can get within about 30 units without EVER BEING SEEN (note to devs, if archers had sight of about 65, aka their NEW RANGE!!! :-(, there would be no problem) which means that my (always have been, due to about 70 missile) REALLY POWERFUL archers can only get about 2 shots before the melee begins. LESS against cavs. AAAAAAAND they're weaker in melee than before. :-( Whereas, my own CAVS... no longer have to deal with the enemy firing on them across 1/2 of the map; by the time the AI archers/arty sees them, it't too late, my cav are sweeping the map with the (few) melee units blocking the way; and then destroying the archers.


Case in point, it was a long time since I consistently had few deaths in COOP....
but now I got several in a row with fewer than 10 deaths, and about 200 kills PER BATTLE!

Note that I am using 5+ cavs.

I speak about PVE in suicide mode.

With now much battle to test. In this mode (well gearred and high levle archer) I can tell archer are too much powerful.

VS LIA (2 shoots sometimes only 1 to put half heal the entire troop).
VS CAV (1/4 cav dead after 1 shoot)

My LIA is full epic (and some GL) equiped
My cav is full GL (exept arti).

So, Maybe you are right when archers are ungeared or low level. But i can assure you it's impossible when they are geared and high level.

I red someone who was telling me "2 shoots and archer got in melle so they are not powerful", well ... i don't know if you play suicide but you need all your melee units to avoid being flanked and none (expet cav) could go on the archers.


Rune,I find using cav only to scout and destroy arti unit is quite unworthly if you considers the cost to get them .. (and to gear them nicely).


Rune, My point is, you changed suicide mode from a enjoying playing with lose, to frustrating battle with almost no win.


I speak as A DL, so maybe with a more powerful race like UD or dwarfs it is possible. ..

It's called Suicide for a reason. So maybe increase CP cap and rewards for Suicide while keeping the difficulty.

Naz_ wrote:

I speak about PVE in suicide mode.

With now much battle to test. In this mode (well gearred and high levle archer) I can tell archer are too much powerful.

VS LIA (2 shoots sometimes only 1 to put half heal the entire troop).
VS CAV (1/4 cav dead after 1 shoot)

My LIA is full epic (and some GL) equiped
My cav is full GL (exept arti).

So, Maybe you are right when archers are ungeared or low level. But i can assure you it's impossible when they are geared and high level.

I red someone who was telling me "2 shoots and archer got in melle so they are not powerful", well ... i don't know if you play suicide but you need all your melee units to avoid being flanked and none (expet cav) could go on the archers.


Rune,I find using cav only to scout and destroy arti unit is quite unworthly if you considers the cost to get them .. (and to gear them nicely).


Rune, My point is, you changed suicide mode from a enjoying playing with lose, to frustrating battle with almost no win.


I speak as A DL, so maybe with a more powerful race like UD or dwarfs it is possible. ..

I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of limit to number of AI archers depending on difficulty. Because archers aren't a lot of AP sometimes the AI spawns a ridiculous number of them, even on lower difficulties. These matches tend to be the hardest matches for me because that number of archers can do a ton of damage in a short time. The reason why higher level archers don't have the same rigged effect with players is because archers count as one of the 10 maximum units we can bring, and can't replace a melee unit. It's only the AI who can bring more than 10 units who takes huge advantage of this.

I still find it puzzling/funny that people think Dwarves are a very powerful race... I'm in no way saying that dwarves are weak but having played as an orc against them I think they are very beatable. Especially dwarves with lower rarity gear and in lower tiers.

not the point scaren.


Today, 1on1 CAV vs dwarf archer.

Full hp both really 1on1
Level 13 archer with 2 GL weapon and banner.
Level 4 CAV, full GS equiped with combat stats.

Cav fled (and died under fire)
Archer 1/2 hp left.

Do you think that realistic that archers make flee CAV, me not at all.

I think they are just about right in range power but they are too powerful in melee combat.

I wasnt taking this so seriusly but I cant believe how only 4 goblins archers left (orc ranged) of level 4 easily kill 1 fleeing HI human on every shot O_O before was pretty hard kill at least 1 in one shot with 16 archers, most of the times only hurt they (-1health) and was really hard kill 2 in a single shot and look funny how only 4 small goblins kill 1 of those full armored guys in only 1 shoot every time they shoot or did fleeing units now suffer more ranged damage too? or new archer strenght ignore endurance?

People need to read patch notes

Quote :

The range of all ranged units (not artillery units) has been decreased by 10.

- Instead of 9 ranged attacks per tick, ranged units have now 10 attacks per tick.

- Missile base STR has increased from 35 to 45

- Archers receive +1/lvl to their Missile Strength. Also, from 20+ Strength stat, the additional Strength points are added to the Missile Strength. Previously it was from 30+ Strength stat. They should be a lot more effective in high end PvP now, but still not HI executioners.

Although I think the last point requires some clarification.

RuneSlayer?

Wouldn't it just be easier and more upfront to just show Missile Strength in the GUI as an actual unhidden stat?

I realize that archers can get lucky shots. But Faer's archers were most likely either capped or had good stats. There were 2 of them. My HI had 98 endurance and 100 armor. In around 2-3 volley they took out 5 HI. That is 1/4 of my unit before melee even begins. I understand if they could do that damage to LI but this was a geared up HI.

Not sure about all the calculations that go on in the back ground.

But that's about 30 shots.
I'd say that's probably reasonable. (given some luck\randomness)

So basically while elven archers can kite, dwarven archers are stuck just standing and firing and hopefully get some kills?   

Scaren wrote:

I realize that archers can get lucky shots. But Faer's archers were most likely either capped or had good stats. There were 2 of them. My HI had 98 endurance and 100 armor. In around 2-3 volley they took out 5 HI. That is 1/4 of my unit before melee even begins. I understand if they could do that damage to LI but this was a geared up HI.

XViper wrote:

Not sure about all the calculations that go on in the back ground.

But that's about 30 shots.
I'd say that's probably reasonable. (given some luck\randomness)

I think it should also be noted that this happened to a Dwarven HI...imagine it were a DL HI (or really any other race). 16 units, 30 less armor...it is not unthinkable for the DL HI to lose at least half ( 8 ) of it's troops in the same circumstances. By the time it goes into melee it might actually lose that fight to the archer unit...heck, it might even flee before or soon after it starts to melee the archer.

If it's an undead HI it not only has 25 units so it will only have less morale but the same amount of HI against all other HI units(except DL) it also can't flee...

Scaren wrote:

If it's an undead HI it not only has 25 units so it will only have less morale but the same amount of HI against all other HI units(except DL) it also can't flee...

To be sure, I'm not making the point that "I have it so much worse than Dwarves you shouldn't complain" rather I am making the point that "DL HI are squishy and undermanned, please help us "

I don't know whether archers are OP, per se...but DL HI get obliterated by archers.

If you are against DL it makes sense to keep shooting into your own engaged units because you're going to do much damage to the DL HI every time, and even if it was the same, DL have less units, so it is still worse to the unit as a whole. (They also have less morale, so they flee faster for that reason too).

First off I agree with DL getting a buff. Secondly I was commenting on how I still think Undead are OP. Thirdly that is a tactic I have used in pvp before when I brought artillery. Just fire into my own and enemy HI if my HI is geared to the teeth especially against DL HI.

As an UD I would advice strongly against shooting into your own ranks, the morale loss is ridiculous when you ff your own units.

Yso, I think the devs are already aware that DL hi needs something. I dont like the temporary solution of the test server to give them 20 men just like everybody else. I would like to keep DL unique by giving each DL HI trooper 3 lives instead of just 2 and lowering their starting stats and caps a little.