Food for thought and brainstorming...

As mentioned in a different post, we are working on a system which will provide a smoother unit level progression and will prevent situations where a Rookie unit is equipped with Godlikes and wreaks havoc on the battlefield. After all, if a player can develop Rookies into unstoppable machines, then what is the use of levels for units, correct? How the heck can a Rookie unit be equipped with the a Godlike "Divine Master Waraxe of Fiery Slaughter" ???

So, instead of creating gear limits depending on the AP of a unit, we decided to do it a bit differently... Level reqs for items.

The value of a bonus and the number of bonuses will dictate the level requirement for an item. For example, we know that a Rare item can provide a max of 2 bonuses with min. stat value 5 and max 10 each. What if it worked like this:


1 bonus Stat value: 5          Min. Lvl Req: 2
1 bonus Stat value: 6-7  Min. Lvl Req: 3
1 bonus Stat value: 8-10  Min. Lvl Req: 4
2 bonuses Total value of 2 bonuses added together: 10-16      Min. Lvl Req: 5
2 bonuses Total value of 2 bonuses added together: 17-20          Min. Lvl Req: 6

(Values are do not represent the final version.)

We believe that the above mechanic could be a very good addition to the game and make things progress much much smoother...upgrades, units, crafting, even matchmaking...

What do you think? Shoot!

I find this approach much better than the previous AP limits that were being discussed. It is really just a matter of working out decent value ranges and how you guys plan to incorporate the new level cap on units.

Very glad to hear a positive comment by a veteran player. We too believe that this is a much better approach than the previous conceived one...

Sounds like a better way of implementing a lvl restriction on items to me. I am curious to see the final values but i agree a step in the right direction.

Side note: any news if there will be an update today?

Thanks
Dakota

Another positive feedback by another veteran player. A good sign...

Dakota337 wrote:

Side note: any news if there will be an update today?

Yes...Preparing it. Guilds' War Banners have been enabled, New Stat Caps, New Repair Cost Algorithm, as discussed in the Forums, Lower Items' Values and some more code for GW...Sadly, the first layer of GW is not being uploaded today... Better safe, than sorry.

Thank you for letting us know and for your hard work. I would rather wait for GW until it is ready to be released than have it thrown out to meet a certain date. Keep up the great work guys.

Dakota

RuneSlayer wrote:

Very glad to hear a positive comment by a veteran player

Psst, Yan doesn't pvp that much now, so the pvp godlike rookies are irrelevant to him.

Runeslayer wrote:

Another positive feedback by another veteran player. A good sign...

Oh no... I'll go and ruin it.


As for the idea... Heh, better than AP limits by itself, and overall cool  Harder to level up tough for the (paying) lower level players..

But the problem I see is with lvl 10 units... This doesn't address them at all. Still gonna be totally one-sided matches sometimes between two lvl 10 godlike armies. And with even higher levels in future... The pvp veterans would kill new guys even more.
But caps + this + AP increase per level should help somewhat.

And... Well, most of my units are lvl 10, so I can still gear my one LI and scare the lighties :S.

Tbh, I don't see any solution for this, so ok, level requirements for now.  

Fyrr wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Very glad to hear a positive comment by a veteran player

Psst, Yan doesn't pvp that much now, so the pvp godlike rookies are irrelevant to him.

Runeslayer wrote:

Another positive feedback by another veteran player. A good sign...

Oh no... I'll go and ruin it.


As for the idea... Heh, better than AP limits by itself, and overall cool  Harder to level up tough for the (paying) lower level players..

But the problem I see is with lvl 10 units... This doesn't address them at all. Still gonna be totally one-sided matches sometimes between two lvl 10 godlike armies. And with even higher levels in future... The pvp veterans would kill new guys even more.
But caps + this + AP increase per level should help somewhat.

And... Well, most of my units are lvl 10, so I can still gear my one LI and scare the lighties :S.

Tbh, I don't see any solution for this, so ok, level requirements for now.  

Fyrr, this mechanism will deal mainly with the "bad" unit progress and the fact that a Rookie unit can become a God on the battlefield with a few Godlike items. However, it will help with the matchmaking as well, if used ..right..

As for matches with both players having GL, why are they one sided? APs will make sure that things are not imbalanced..

Runeslayer wrote:

Fyrr, this mechanism will deal mainly with the "bad" unit progress and the fact that a Rookie unit can become a God on the battlefield with a few Godlike items. However, it will help with the matchmaking as well, if used ..right..

I never knew it's such an issue  And be sure i'll try abusing it for experiment's sake.

So you'll think of something else to deal with lvl 10s or not?

Runeslayer wrote:

As for matches with both players having GL, why are they one sided? APs will make sure that things are not imbalanced..

don't be so sure... Caps maybe will fix it, but ...rumors about unbeatable players  Incidentally, hoarding a few good godlikes.

I'll pvp after new caps extensively before talking more though.

(and Rune never appreciates my feedback, lol)

Fyrr wrote:

don't be so sure... Caps maybe will fix it, but ...rumors about unbeatable players Wink Incidentally, hoarding a few good godlikes.

I'll pvp after new caps extensively before talking more though.

We are quite happy with the results from the simulations. However, the feedback by the community, with valid arguments, is always welcome. Comments like "Aaaargh! I played a PvP and I lost! Stat caps are not good!!!!" really don't help...

You still didn't tell me the problem with opponents playing with GL items...

Fyrr wrote:

(and Rune never appreciates my feedback, lol)

I will have to disagree with you. If I didn't appreciate someone's feedback, then I would certainly not reply to his posts and definitely not send him Buildings and Technologies Reqs to be used for the wiki...

RuneSlayer wrote:

You still didn't tell me the problem with opponents playing with GL items...

As I said, I'll need to test the update before making hasty comments. If something out-of-balance continues, I'll let you know, of course. (with screenshots? lol)   

RuneSlayer wrote:

I will have to disagree with you. If I didn't appreciate someone's feedback, then I would certainly not reply to his posts and definitely not send him Buildings and Technologies Reqs to be used for the wiki...

Ok, "Rune likes to disagree with me"

...but I don't get all my posts/PMs answered and still need more info, hmm. (lol, just pushing my luck, aren't I?)

Well I kind of know you somewhat listen to my words, your longer posts and all... And all these lists, really nice (did I thank you properly? No? Sorry, thanks ).

Also, you come and answer some unexpected stuff. So hard to predict your behavior.

Waiting for the final numbers, but it seems like a step in the right direction. Definitly better than AP restriction. Way more elegant to make units "earn" the right to wear better gear. Pretty good.

Also...

RuneSlayer wrote:

For example, we know that a Rare item can provide a max of 2 bonuses with min. stat value 5 and max 10 each.

The max bonus on a stat on rare item is +11, not +10

Overall I'm under the impression that both bonus combined can't be higher than +20 (you can have +10/+10 or +11/+9. But you can have +11/+11 I think).

P.S : Don't hit me for contradicting you... I like crafting ! To the point of being a little bit ocd about it ^^

Nethack wrote:

The max bonus on a stat on rare item is +11, not +10

you sure? the combat stats always go no higher than 10. Maybe the 11 was from xp/dur/drop?

Fyrr wrote:

Nethack wrote:

The max bonus on a stat on rare item is +11, not +10

you sure? the combat stats always go no higher than 10. Maybe the 11 was from xp/dur/drop?

Yes I'm sure. I have several rare items with +11/+9.

At least on my rare weapons is +11 melee / +9 strenght.

Nethack wrote:

Waiting for the final numbers, but it seems like a step in the right direction. Definitly better than AP restriction. Way more elegant to make units "earn" the right to wear better gear. Pretty good.

Also...

RuneSlayer wrote:

For example, we know that a Rare item can provide a max of 2 bonuses with min. stat value 5 and max 10 each.

The max bonus on a stat on rare item is +11, not +10

Overall I'm under the impression that both bonus combined can't be higher than +20 (you can have +10/+10 or +11/+9. But you can have +11/+11 I think).

P.S : Don't hit me for contradicting you... I like crafting ! To the point of being a little bit ocd about it ^^

The max bonus on a stat on rare items is +10, not +11.

2 bonuses, each +10 is +20 in total.

Never assumed that there was a contradiction.

Nethack wrote:

Yes I'm sure. I have several rare items with +11/+9.

At least on my rare weapons is +11 melee / +9 strenght.

screenshot.  

Fyrr wrote:

Nethack wrote:

Yes I'm sure. I have several rare items with +11/+9.

At least on my rare weapons is +11 melee / +9 strenght.

screenshot.  

RARE items?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Fyrr wrote:

Nethack wrote:

Yes I'm sure. I have several rare items with +11/+9.

At least on my rare weapons is +11 melee / +9 strenght.

screenshot.  

RARE items?

I can't really sort throught all my stuff now, due to a crappy hostel connection.... but look what I found for you. A +12   :



And yes it's a rare (look at the yellow color).

ah, hero items, yes, i have some of those, even +12 m +9 str weapon.

But but but, for units?...

There is DEFINITELY something wrong here...

the sum is 20 but stats are exceeding the 10 rule

Didn't souless quit yesterday? ;P No matter how ya boil it down, units with GL gear are almost impossible to beat w/o GLs. Along with restrictions, an option for GL needs to be in place for PVP lobby. I think this would make PvP more popular, instead of getting (can't say raped so...) slaughtered by GLs every time. But like Dak said, great work on updating fellas

Well I can't really investigate more right now since I don't play at the time due to travel / holidays... but if it's a bug and you fix it the dwarven collector in me want to keep that special edition.

So pretty please don't delete it (I won't even use it). Being the owner and the crafter of an exotic unique item is like the total dream of a dwarven smith. ^^

Stinkfinger wrote:

Didn't souless quit yesterday? ;P    No matter how ya boil it down, units with GL gear are almost impossible to beat w/o GLs. Along with restrictions, an option for GL needs to be in place for PVP lobby. I think this would make PvP more popular, instead of getting (can't say raped so...) slaughtered by GLs every time. But like Dak said, great work on updating fellas

I replied on a discussion that I needed few days without playing because I was bored, I never quitted permanently but I'm one step and half outside the door because I like the game and the idea to create a multiplayer game like this one and I have my guild that is waiting for my return....and I'll never let Fartman surpassing me in the rankings

Glad you aren't quitting souless I'm sure everyone has gotten frustrated with the devs or the games, but hopefully your frustration will go away.