I had a dream...

The cp bonus system is OK but 1 change is very important - not fighting players shouldn't be count!!!
Now we don't know if we have 20 fighter on light side against 50 on dark side or 20 on dark side against 100 on light side.

Moreover some lighties don't fight any more coz they got affected by OP capital armies, too many changes in one time its not good for the game.

Guess we can keep whining and crying until we blow a fuse, the captain has left the boat and that's the real problem. We are dead in the water and can't see any land.

What about agreeing on a truce, dark or light don't push forward until the devs show up? It's that an idea?

good point...i for one am happy to battle on, win or lose, bonus. no bonus, whatever....i still like the game, still have fun, and have no intention of abandoning ship even if she is a hulk. will try to keep all future comments positive.

The biggest problem was making 3 changes all at the same time: uncapping suicides, mucking with the CP bonus algorithm, and making the AI armies super strong. Too many changes at once without knowing how things would change.

I think most would agree that the AI armies are WAY too overpowered and need to be nerfed quite a bit. Both lights and darks have said this. It would be great if the devs, as they claim they do, would listen to the community and do something about this, but I'm of the opinion that THE DEVS DON'T CARE ABOUT BATTLE CONQUEST ANYMORE. Which is a shame, because it is currently Agincourt's only active game, and a game that I have played for free but would actually spend money on if the devs were still active in making necessary tweaks. Alas, all they seem to care about is Kingdoms Age, a game I know I will not be playing.

I want to reply to so much in this thread...but I'm mostly done talking about it until I know it serves a purpose. Until then...how about that dream that ysosad guy had, pretty weird, right?

let's look at the war-report 28-08.

number of victories and cps produced. light had 200 victories more. light made 50K cps more. that averages at 250 cp/battle.
that seems off.

klaas wrote:

let's look at the war-report 28-08.

number of victories and cps produced. light had 200 victories more. light made 50K cps more. that averages at 250 cp/battle.
that seems off.

Total CP / Victories
Dark 116604/904 = 129 cp per battle
Light 165155/1182 = 140 cp per battle

First, i agree with the effort to balance the game, and im pretty sure we are very near.
Second, i agree to help the lower populated side to make the war interesting and balanced.
Third, i hardly disagree with who are saying that if the more populated side fight less than the less populated, the less populated has no right to be helped. I hate hearing it, it is dishonorable. I think that if the greater effort is heavily rewarded is fine. The Light can not have the bonus now? This is a good new, for we are still greater in number. At the time we will get the bonus, will be a sad day for this will mean we will be few. So, if the only thing to not let the darkies have the bonus is fighting, LET'S FIGHT! And stop crying, this is a bad show. A true warrior doesn't complain the enemy if he fights better! A true warrior find his gut and start punching more than him!!!

Fourth, introducing new variables is fine, for me. But the verify is needed! A huge change like this, with uncapped suicides new algorythm and OP AI armies is good, IF watched and fixed in the following days after a while for testing.

SO, all is good for me if some fixes will happen. I agree with the bonus for darkies, and i like A LOT the thing that if the darkness side fight better than us they have MORE bonus, this is a reward for the greater effort, and it can give them a chance of victory. I don t want a one way war, as stated many times.

But please, lower the power of the AI armies.
I asked to restart the map, it didn t happen. The Dark AI army did it though, in some way. That's good for now, but it is time to decrease their power. We are near the middle of the map, we can still do a good war since now.
Let's do it, with AI armies which can alter an hex by max 20% per hit. The rest can stay, for me.

The Light faction must find unity otherwise it can t win? it is a good thing.
The Light faction must start consider far more the warriors than the farmers? It is a good thing (not bullying the farmers, but at least stimulate them to fight. The game is BATTLE CONQUEST; how can you conquest without battling?). The strange thing is giving to farmer guilds the best places of the map =) And another strange thing is that farmer guilds started fight when attacked, so they are alive at the end... The faction must find the way to let them fight. A mercenary guild worked. Maybe there are other ways =)
The Light faction must become a better place, with more respect and better language, stopping the bullies when they start insulting? This should be normal...
The Light faction has no bonus for it is more populate? Good thing, good being more populated, no need of bonus.
The Dark faction need the bonus to have a chance of victory? It is a good thing to give them the possibility. They need to fight a lot more though, so thinking that the Light is disadvantaged is wrong. If both sides would fight with the same effort, the Light would win. The Dark side must still fight a lot more to reach the goal.

The AI armies are too powerful? THIS IS the bad thing!

PS: when the devs introduced the dwergar and the drows, the Light faction didn't accept them so well. We should start accepting the new features when they come. And the devs should follow us closely than they are doing, after introducing new variables. Im open to the changes, i like them and hope in new scenarios, even unbalanced, after any war. I didn t complain the dwergar and the drows, i waited for them and was a bit deluded when they didn t ome with the new war. I didn t like the way in which the faction cried for the innovation. If we ask for the devs we maybe have to be more ready for the changes.
But about the situation, i hope all agree about the need of lowering the power of the AI. And the need of fixing the game when needed. Now is needed.

i regret i can upvote ^ only once.

Very good post Ulfriden!

Narmis wrote:

The biggest problem was making 3 changes all at the same time: uncapping suicides, mucking with the CP bonus algorithm, and making the AI armies super strong. Too many changes at once without knowing how things would change.

My feelings exactly. My brief thoughts on each change;

1) AI armies. Targeting is vastly improved, still random enough. I would actually like to see the speed at which the armies travel/hit increased as well as the damage decreased in proportion to the increase in frequency. ON TOP of that decrease, they should be nerfed period, they hit too hard.

2) Uncapping suicides and insanes. Makes sense, made sense, terrible timing on the update lol.

3) CP Bonus. A vast improvement over the old one. Yes it needs a bit of tweaking but the way it works and the clearly defined (and available lol) numbers are way better. The flaw in this update is not its actual content but the failure of the development team to follow up on the update with minor bug fixes and adjustments.

Regarding the position of "Players have always farmed, what's wrong with farming, etc".... How would you feel If this was a real war, and your commanding officer told you that Jim didn't actually ever fight the enemy, but since he provided baked goods on occasion he was just as valuable to the war as you?

Farmers hurt the game, they always have. It's a social/group effort game, and farming is a fundamentally selfish position in which one only really cares about upgrading their own stuff. If you want to build and manage resources go play Sim City. Seriously. I love that game. But this one is called "Battle Conquest" not "Economic Management". The city building is a form of character level ups to improve fighting performance. Fighting. Fighting. Fighting. That is how effort is defined. In the rankings, on the map, and in the most unique aspect of this game, the RTS portion.

LSLarry wrote:

Regarding the position of "Players have always farmed, what's wrong with farming, etc"....  How would you feel If this was a real war, and your commanding officer told you that Jim didn't actually ever fight the enemy, but since he provided baked goods on occasion he was just as valuable to the war as you?

Farmers hurt the game, they always have.  It's a social/group effort game, and farming is a fundamentally selfish position in which one only really cares about upgrading their own stuff.  If you want to build and manage resources go play Sim City.  Seriously.  I love that game.  But this one is called "Battle Conquest" not "Economic Management".  The city  building is a form of character level ups to improve fighting performance.  Fighting.   Fighting.  Fighting.  That is how effort is defined.  In the rankings, on the map, and in the most unique aspect of this game, the RTS portion.

Ok, 1 final response, then it's really time for Yso's dream. I don't care who gets on to this game and why. Personally, I don't see any ''sim city''-fun in BC, but who cares ? Sometimes an old player stops by and chats a bit without fighting, I don't care. Some people only want to do pvp. Again, I don't care. You won't hear me saying : people should not pvp or get on for pvp only. Wouldn't help even if I did, I think ^^

This isn't a real war, it's a game. People become inactive all the time, but keep logging in, donate the stuff to their old guild and get out again. It is not substantial, but...who cares ? Maybe people check this game out and after a couple of hours quit playing forever. Too bad they quit, but .... who cares that they were on for a time ? Is that bad or something ? Why does the community have to change over a bonus ? Why should only fighters be allowed to log in ? Maybe the devs can fix that for you, if they get back. After logging in a couple of times without fighting you get banned, or something like that.

Bit easy to just say ''farmers are bad and care only about themselves'', without even taking into account that there are so many different reasons to log in to BC, even when not fighting. I agree ofcourse that the main thing in BC is fighting. I've done a bit of that myself, but have decided to lay low. There is more to real life than BC. But if I want to log in, to get my ressies out, donate to my guild, chat/mail a bit if necessary, I will. Even despite the fact that it is ''hurting'' my faction.

But...think a minute : a game where people should not log-in unless they fight...sounds like a game that's not a game anymore.

ysosad wrote:

I want to reply to so much in this thread...but I'm mostly done talking about it until I know it serves a purpose. Until then...how about that dream that ysosad guy had, pretty weird, right?

Nice dream, Yso ! Keep on dreaming like that, sometimes dreams come true !

Johntheright wrote:

Ok, 1 final response, then it's really time for Yso's dream. I don't care who gets on to this game and why. Personally, I don't see any ''sim city''-fun in BC, but who cares ? Sometimes an old player stops by and chats a bit without fighting, I don't care. Some people only want to do pvp. Again, I don't care. You won't hear me saying : people should not pvp or get on for pvp only. Wouldn't help even if I did, I think ^^

This isn't a real war, it's a game. People become inactive all the time, but keep logging in, donate the stuff to their old guild and get out again. It is not substantial, but...who cares ? Maybe people check this game out and after a couple of hours quit playing forever. Too bad they quit, but .... who cares that they were on for a time ? Is that bad or something ? Why does the community have to change over a bonus ? Why should only fighters be allowed to log in ? Maybe the devs can fix that for you, if they get back. After logging in a couple of times without fighting you get banned, or something like that.

Bit easy to just say ''farmers are bad and care only about themselves'', without even taking into account that there are so many different reasons to log in to BC, even when not fighting. I agree ofcourse that the main thing in BC is fighting. I've done a bit of that myself, but have decided to lay low. There is more to real life than BC. But if I want to log in, to get my ressies out, donate to my guild, chat/mail a bit if necessary, I will. Even despite the fact that it is ''hurting'' my faction.

But...think a minute : a game where people should not log-in unless they fight...sounds like a game that's not a game anymore.

The solution to all those situations is to not count people who log in but do not have 1 victory in the CP bonus equation. Plenty of people have suggested it. Plenty of DARK FACTION members have suggested it.

Regarding the more general question of "telling people how to play the game"... This is not my intent. The situation we are in NOW dictates that farming the faction hurts substantially. It has taken a minor issue and made it into a more pressing one. I do believe that farming is selfish and fundamentally counters the 'team' aspect of this game, and frankly don't see anything wrong with having that opinion. I do see something wrong with you ascribing straw man arguments along the lines of "oh, devs should just ban all non-fighters for you then" to me. I understand you are frustrated, and I know you do want what's best for the game. I'm willing to talk about it with you, but please talk about things I have actually said. You disagree with plenty of them, no need to add new hyperbolic arguments as well...

Strachu wrote:

Total CP / Victories
Dark 116604/904 = 129 cp per battle
Light 165155/1182 = 140 cp per battle

That is correct... DOWNVOTE!
Let the tiny-text record show that I upvoted Strachu to balance out the -1 someone else gave him for using numbers. (and because having a negative reputation made me feel sad...now he is a 0................and I'm sad again.)

Ysosad: Your tiny text entertained me...and made me sad

ysosad wrote:

Strachu wrote:

Total CP / Victories
Dark 116604/904 = 129 cp per battle
Light 165155/1182 = 140 cp per battle

That is correct... DOWNVOTE!
Let the tiny-text record show that I upvoted Strachu to balance out the -1 someone else gave him for using numbers. (and because having a negative reputation made me feel sad...now he is a 0................and I'm sad again.)

just replay to Klaas post

So sad Y did you saw any changes to the game in your dream?

1. New war and new map with few opportunities to win: conquer enemy’s capita, take control of a region and hold it for few days or a week, take control of few regions in same time. Maybe one capital in a middle defend by AI armies, faction which take control of this capital win the war.

2. Smaller map with same number of regional bonuses. Some new bonuses, bonus to cp, bonus to damage cause to walls. 1 region with different bonuses, owner may choose one of them. It’ll be good to have a choice if we want bonus for guild or faction for example bonus to cp 10% for a guild or 1 % for faction, same with healing time or repairing. When faction control 3 or 4 regions with the same bonuses then faction get extra bonus. Regions with bonuses in the borders might be defend by AI army, good bonuses but some difficulty to take control of them. Just few thing to attract the game.

3. Controllable Capital Armies, Ulises wrote about it. It’ll be better if we get some control of the army, if we can destroy it, counter the assault, gather force.

4. Influence on a region based not only on cp output but also on other efforts. Some mechanism implemented to transfer efforts to influence on a region or CA. Now we can do solos, coops, pvps I hope we can do challenge too. The idea of internet games is to play against other players but mostly we are doing pve, how to change it and make pvp more important in the game? Maybe more cp from pvp, extra command points for pvp battles, bonus to cp, I hope you saw same solution in your dream.

5. Walls, one more thing that need change. Walls are too weak, too easy to build and destroy it. Doesn’t matter how strong they are they won’t stop anyone. A limit to number of regions that faction can wall will be good but then walls should be strong, that refers to bonus to walls damage.