Tech upgrade prices

Prices for tech are insanely high on Olympus, please change Devs, and members, vote whether or not this should happen so Devs have a clearer view on what to do

You should specify what research you are talking about. I find each research option to be fair except for Lich's Library. I personally find that to be way to high for what it offers.

I voted Maybe - we don't have enough data yet.

Olympus is supposed to be different than Everos, so we can't ask for all the features to be made the same; though of course, also, they didn't get it perfect on try #1.

Overall, for newbies, a few of us have talked, best idea seems to be:

• Way way more quests, to help newbies get the resources needed for buildings & researches.  So they can get past 1k fame & stay in the game.
  

I think that is way better solution than lowering the costs of researches, make it so easier to get those resources for newbies.

venumuse wrote:

You should specify what research you are talking about. I find each research option to be fair except for Lich's Library. I personally find that to be way to high for what it offers.

I find that basically all are over priced. I feel that the prices are more judged on people who pay money on the game and less on those who don't.

Pearl wrote:

I voted Maybe - we don't have enough data yet.

Olympus is supposed to be different than Everos, so we can't ask for all the features to be made the same; though of course, also, they didn't get it perfect on try #1.

Overall, for newbies, a few of us have talked, best idea seems to be:

• Way way more quests, to help newbies get the resources needed for buildings & researches.  So they can get past 1k fame & stay in the game.
  

I think that is way better solution than lowering the costs of researches, make it so easier to get those resources for newbies.

Well, that may work well too. However, the 2nd row of upgrades are in the 10000's and the iron is close to 15000, this is a problem because you have to have your warehouse higher then 12 levels to even hold that much, and that may make people lose interest just to get one upgrade.

Uncommondrunk wrote:

However, the 2nd row of upgrades are in the 10000's and the iron is close to 15000, this is a problem because you have to have your warehouse higher then 12 levels to even hold that much, and that may make people lose interest just to get one upgrade.

On Olympus, to get Calvary:

• You need level 14 barracks - Reasonable;
  
• However, you also need Chain mail armor;
  
• For which you need level 14 armorsmith - a bit annoying, still reasonable;
  
• However to afford the cost of Chain mail armor - you need level 16 warehouse       
  
• And then to get level 16 warehouse, you need level 15 command center   
  

So it is way way harder to get Calvary than you initially think when you are trying to get level 14 barracks.

The sudden "unexpected" cost of Chain Mail Armor, Level 16 Warehouse & Level 15 command center makes the cost of Calvary about 3x more than "expected" initially.

I don't have the exact figures, but I estimate its easily 500k of each resource to get from heavy's to Calvary, due to the cost of upgrading 4 buildings (barracks 14, weaponsmith 14, warehouse 16, control center 15) & also the high cost of Chain Mail Armor Research (its like 90k iron¹ alone, which is what required the level 16 warehouse)

---

¹On Everos on other hand Chain Mail Armor is only 14,256 iron (instead of 90k or so)

The sudden "unexpected" cost of Chain Mail Armor, Level 16 Warehouse & Level 15 command center makes the cost of Calvary about 3x more than "expected" initially.[/quote]

And so the Devs need to either.
1, make warehouse hold more and resource buildings get more resources per hour/day.
2, lower research costs and/or requirements.
3, Allow battles and/or quests to give more resources per completion.

Am I dead wrong? Or somewhat right?

Uncommondrunk wrote:

And so the Devs need to either.
1, make warehouse hold more and resource buildings get more resources per hour/day.
2, lower research costs and/or requirements.
3, Allow battles and/or quests to give more resources per completion.

Am I dead wrong? Or somewhat right?

Definitely some changes must be made. For one, resources drops from battles are far too low, making gold about 3-4x easier to get than any other resource ( without guild help or gems).

the resources gained from resource buildings is especially bad because it was already not very good on Erevos but now the buildings cost 2.5x more. So even early on it takes many many many hours of production just to make up for the cost of upgrading the building a single time. They could definitely use some love.

Warehouse may need some love too if it takes level 16 warehouse to get cavs (Jeez!). The numbers are much higher than Erevos already, but... so are the prices of everything.

I also like Pearl's idea of more quests for newbies (in conjunction with the raised resource drops from battle). It's way too hard to get in the game as it is, unlike Erevos where the early pacing is pretty solid. This is mostly because the quests get you through a lot on Erevos where on Olympus they only get you through a tiny bit due to majorly raised prices...

Essentially, by raising prices such a substantial amount without changing anything else to counter it, the game has become a snail race (where only snails with the money to buy racecars will get anywhere soon). I doubt it was an intentional money grab because alienating most of your potential customers is not a good way to make money. I think it's just a major issue that desperately needs to be looked into.

The game's economy is being held up by gems... If devs really want to show that they are not focused on the gem players, than they need to fix this economy problem as soon as possible. I challenge anyone to play through the game without getting any direct help from another player as the economy is now (using market, but not getting help from guild, etc). It's absolutely dreadful, slow, unbalanced and not fun. I've already tried this on Olympus and it's also what I did on Erevos but had so much more fun doing. I gave up doing that on Olympus and eventually accepted aid from my guild... and it' still way too slow... I can't play the game like this, it just isn't fun. Especially when noone wants to/can pvp to get my mind off the stagnancy.

Olympus is up for about a week now and you people want to unlock Cavalry, which is right at the end of units to be unlocked, exactly behind Artillery the last unit in the game?

Erevos was an economical disaster...we are not going back there...

Some facts:

1) Warehouse capacity HAS been increased. (Eg. At lvl 14 the capacity was 41571 and now it is 66901...as for level 25..it used to be 174k and now it is over 320k)

2) At level 14, resource buildings (wood, stone, iron) produce 541/hour with a 2788 max capacity, which is 12984/day (with an auto collect), or 5576 with the player collecting his resources just twice in a day. At that point, a player has already started battles in Nightmare mode generating around 1k resources (wood stone iron) and depending on the casualties around 1.5k gold net gain. This means that with just 20 battles, he can generate 20k resources and around 30k gold in a single day. As he will require also gold for repairing and because he is not receiving 20k from each resource with the 20 battles per day, he will probably require 2-3 days to accumulate enough resources for Command Center lvl 15 (and that without the auto collect).

3) The quests in the beginning provide enough resources to get the player going until almost level 10 buildings.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Olympus is up for about a week now and you people want to unlock Cavalry, which is right at the end of units to be unlocked, exactly behind Artillery the last unit in the game?

Erevos was an economical disaster...we are not going back there...

Some facts:

1) Warehouse capacity HAS been increased. (Eg. At lvl 14 the capacity was 41571 and now it is 66901...as for level 25..it used to be 174k and now it is over 320k)

2) At level 14, resource buildings (wood, stone, iron) produce 541/hour with a 2788 max capacity, which is 12984/day (with an auto collect), or 5576 with the player collecting his resources just twice in a day. At that point, a player has already started battles in Nightmare mode generating around 1k resources (wood stone iron) and depending on the casualties around 1.5k gold net gain. This means that with just 20 battles, he can generate 20k resources and around 30k gold in a single day. As he will require also gold for repairing and because he is not receiving 20k from each resource with the 20 battles per day, he will probably require 2-3 days to accumulate enough resources for Command Center lvl 15 (and that without the auto collect).

3) The quests in the beginning provide enough resources to get the player going until almost level 10 buildings.

All of this is true. However, you say that everything can hold more and get more resources. But, what about people who have their resource buildings at level 7 and can't even come up with the resources to get it upgraded once, "myself" what about them?
Just going to say tough luck and have them wait 4 days for one upgrade? Remember that some of us aren't your average people that can take time to sit around and play computer games all day... Just some stuff for a reminder

RuneSlayer wrote:

3) The quests in the beginning provide enough resources to get the player going until almost level 10 buildings.

That must be why I'm still stuck with level 8 barracks, after tons of help from my guild... haha. When you get 1.5x as much gold as every other resource combined it's kind of hard to keep up. This is why iron and stone and sometimes even wood end up on the market for such high prices. The battles are the main source of supply for the game, which effects the cost and demand.

You've said it yourself that it'll leave the player with about 30k gold and 20k resources after 20 nightmare modes. But it takes quite a while to do 20 nightmare modes first of all, and second of all and more importantly, 20k resources is very very little when considering that's combined among all three resources. And after 60 of these battles what do you get? A building that makes your next buildings take 1% less time to make (and unlocks other things which you can then go to do many many more battles in order to afford). If so much gold is coming from battles but so little resources, how do you expect people to offset all that extra gold? The market doesn't magically procure new resources for people with gold to buy. The only reason resources are in any half-way decent number is because the people putting gems in the game avoid gold and even wood and almost exclusively get iron and stone, and it's unreasonable to expect guilds to share their gem bought resources with the market. All in all this makes the game pace really slow for most non-payers. The entire economy is too reliant on people paying real money to get resources. What about people who don't like to join guilds in games or who hate getting freebies (like me!?)? I spent most of the beginning of the game desperately trying to get a hold of iron because I had capped my warehouse in gold and had almost 0 iron. THIS is not good economy design! The quests helped some but they are only a mildly effective salve at best. As soon as the resources run out you are left with the same sore you had before.

Also forget cav, I've struggled even get to the point I can pvp anyone... much less get horses. Tier 1 is empty, and tier 2 is unreachable for me for quite some time... I dream about when I may one day unlock heavy infantry. I bet the only people complaining about cav are ones that have thrown a good chuck of real money into the game. My estimate is it will be at least April before I could have cavs if I actually tried hard... but that hardly seems worth it so it'll probably be closer to July...

For me this would all be a lot bearable if I could actually pvp with people... It's practically impossible to get in queue until barracks 7 and by then the units have leveled up too much to enter tier 1, and tier 2 is far too much AP for me to reach.  I have got to pvp now though... against Kuba and Ala. I haven't had any luck getting anyone else to pvp me. Unfortunately those two are pvp machines, with the best pvp race, tactics and setup and my chance of winning is about 0%... I know this because after about 6 matches I never even got close to scoring a win against Ala, as his units were about twice as powerful as mine (strangely I actually got closer to beating Kuba!   ).

I'm certain I sound a little more angry than I really am (it's really late for me, about to go to sleep...), but honestly the game is just losing it's charm for me when going at this speed.  I mean, it takes like 2 weeks for an upgrade of a resource building from 7 to 8 to even begin profiting... Jeez! It'll skyrocket by the time it reaches the level 14 buildings you mention. And then whats the point of upgrading the building if takes months to make a profit!?!?

TLDR: Unless you pay or get tons of help, game is too slow! PvP tiers are far too inconvenient to reach early on (tier 1 and 2)!

PS: game seems to be down right now? I can't seem to log in at battleconquest.com

Edit: Nevermind, it's back up now, thanks very much.   

Runeslayer wrote:

1) Warehouse capacity HAS been increased. (Eg. At lvl 14 the capacity was 41571 and now it is 66901...as for level 25..it used to be 174k and now it is over 320k)

I believe warehouse 21 was 171k & warehouse 25 was 208k before.

---

RuneSlayer wrote:

Olympus is up for about a week now and you people want to unlock Cavalry, which is right at the end of units to be unlocked, exactly behind Artillery the last unit in the game?

Erevos was an economical disaster...we are not going back there...

Thoughts:

1. Without gems, and playing regularly, it took Joyce about two weeks per unit to unlock them;
   
2. This was just about right, as it took about two weeks per unit (archer, then heavy, then chariots) to learn how to use each unit!
   
3. The game is very nicely designed that each unit is very different and changes the strategy ... and takes time to learn how to use properly.
   

Questions:

1. How was Everos a disaster? I think originally (before walls) the economy was quite good (although the Gem adjustment to 300 max resources was very needed). The walls are a major resource drain on Everos & pushed up the wood/iron/stone prices very high.
   
2. At what rate do the developers want us to unlock each new unit for a "good" game progression? Two weeks like Joyce had?
   

I agree that:

• Unlocking units too fast is an issue -- not as much fun;
  
• Unlocking too slow is also an issue -- also not much fun.
  

Bobba makes excellent points. Without gems, and talking to many members in Diamond, it is too hard right now to progress in Olympus.

Bobba is not asking for it to be too easy. But "reasonable".

So the question is: What is "reasonable" rate of growth? And is Olympus adjusted for that?

I think its hard to tell on Olympus due to the massive influx of gems from about 10 players.... (also players may be expecting too fast to get to same level as Everos. It took months on Everos, so reasonable it takes months on Olympus; the issue is 2 months or 6 months like Bobba fears?)

Pearl wrote:

Without gems, and playing regularly, it took Joyce about two weeks per unit to unlock them;

I'm assuming you are referring to Erevos? Since you got cavs in Olympus pretty quickly (I'm assuming by using gems). And especially because Olympus has only been live for 10 days.

And honestly, not being able to pvp anyone is the biggest disappointment of all; though I know that pvp isn't everyone's cup of tea, I feel like people who would like to pvp can't because of the strict and strange requirements. I do hate the economy on Olympus more than I did the one in Erevos though, based solely on the fact that everything is more expensive but the resources are just as scarce compared to gold as they were in Erevos, as having to pay 2.5x more for everything simply compounds the economy problem. If there is shortages of resources, making EVERYTHING more expensive doesn't solve a single thing. You have to make the things that are in surplus (gold) more expensive by making there be less of it, make the resources that are rare (like iron) less expensive by supplying more of it, or a combination of the two. A combination would probably be best, as it would be easier to keep a good balance that way.

The only way we as players can solve the economy problem is with gems. And that is bad design. There is no way to "farm" for a specific resource or to focus on resources over gold. And thus there is no way to increase the supply of iron/stone/wood without simultaneously overdosing on gold. Something needs to be changed.

Bobba wrote:

I'm assuming you are referring to Erevos? Since you got cavs in Olympus pretty quickly (I'm assuming by using gems). And especially because Olympus has only been live for 10 days.

Yes, played from July 23rd to August 28th (about 5 weeks) without using any gems really.  So talking about that period on Everos.  Then it took about two weeks per unit to unlock it, which seems just about right to me.

Yes, used gems on Olympus.

Bobba wrote:

And honestly, not being able to pvp anyone is the biggest disappointment of all

Developer have been working hard on PvP Tournaments & PvP against AI when can't find a match.

Lets see how that goes.  And after that we can see about suggesting further improvements.

Bobba wrote:

The only way we as players can solve the economy problem is with gems. And that is bad design.

I agree & don't agree

1. I agree we "could" "theoretically" solve with gems;
   
2. However, this is a war game ... so I don't agree .. we are not going to "solve" with gems & help our enemies (opposite faction) get cheaper resources.  Does not make sense;
   
3. Since we have a common market between light & dark --- it affects that market. I'm sure if there was a light faction market & a dark faction market, prices would come way way down as people wanted to help their own faction.
   

My viewpoint, overall:

1. High end, its probably ok how the economy functions;
   
2. My major issue is for Newbies.  I think they need more quests ... so they stay around in the game ... and ability to get to level 15 or so without such high prices;
   
3. Longer term quests (i..e: that take a few days to do) that help them get their buildings & research help would be a really good solution.  This would allow the developers to control the rate at which new units are unlocked also to whatever rate they consider "reasonable".
   

Bobba wrote:

Something needs to be changed.

*mutes Bobba*

There! All fixed!

On a more serious note...

I strongly believe that the economy is just fine and that the pace is not too slow and definitely not too fast. The fact that you experienced Battle Conquest's gameplay in a much faster mode is evidently affecting your point of view. However, I see no reason why we couldn't add more quests (storyline) to help new users even more.

In regards to PvP... Tbh, the ideal PvP system for me would be to prepare ANY army, enter in PvP queue and then start battle in a matter of seconds. Unfortunately, if you want to provide a balanced and fair PvP experience you need to "enforce" rules...which at one point they become so extreme that hinder the player from actually play! This is where the AI PvP battles come in...

I know you are "hurting", and trust me...it pains me too watching people NOT being able to enjoy PvP as they should... Lets see whether things will improve with the AI PvP battles and work from there..

RuneSlayer wrote:

Bobba wrote:

Something needs to be changed.

*mutes Bobba*

There! All fixed!

Yes! My plan worked! Er I mean, NOOOO!!!

RuneSlayer wrote:

The fact that you experienced Battle Conquest's gameplay in a much faster mode is evidently affecting your point of view. However, I see no reason why we couldn't add more quests (storyline) to help new users even more.

Actually I believe I am a bit more prepared for it all because I already played once before. I know how to beat battles with little casualties and which things to buy first, and people know me and are willing to help me. Many new players won't have those same luxuries and as such will probably find progressing to be even slower than I do. I'd just like to point out that increasing the cost of everything by 2.5x does not make the game 2.5x slower as you have to figure in opportunity cost of lost income (and early on, bonuses from quests which I assume haven't been raised 2.5x). The real value is probably closer to 4x slower. But the biggest problem is I still think getting resources other than gold is way too hard and the economy is suffering for it; I will stand by that till it is resolved. I've done everything I can to try to explain that resources are simply not in good enough supply to support the gold. Adding in more quests early on (and maybe increasing the reward for a few too) would certainly help a lot to keep newer players hooked, but I still think once the quests stop helping enough (or they finish the questlines) many people could find the change in pace unforgivable, so be careful as that could backfire.

RuneSlayer wrote:

In regards to PvP... Tbh, the ideal PvP system for me would be to prepare ANY army, enter in PvP queue and then start battle in a matter of seconds. Unfortunately, if you want to provide a balanced and fair PvP experience you need to "enforce" rules...which at one point they become so extreme that hinder the player from actually play! This is where the AI PvP battles come in...

I know you are "hurting", and trust me...it pains me too watching people NOT being able to enjoy PvP as they should... Lets see whether things will improve with the AI PvP battles and work from there..

The best part about pvp is that it is against humans... while it will be nice to be able to pvp a computer if nobody joins the queue for some time, and it's definitely a feature I look forward to, there are still some problems that make getting into the pvp queue early on a major hassle; the rules to enter tier 1 aren't just strict, they are arcane. I had to hire new units just to get into tier 1 because my main force had already reached level 5/6 by the time I could reach 500 AP. At the very least, please make a new tier 0 with 300-400 AP (or so) and/or make tier 1 pvp go up to level 5 or 6 instead of only 4. Tier 1 up to level 4 may have worked Ok in Erevos but with progression speed wayyyy lower we are getting to high levels before we can even reach the same tiers. I'm not saying the rules on tiers aren't important, I'm just saying they need some adjustment on them so people don't have to actually go out of their way hiring a whole new team of units just to enter the queue, because most people won't even bother if they have to go to that much effort to pvp. For the bigger players, some of them like Pearl are still waiting for being able to save equipment setups because switching gear on 6-10 units twice just to *maybe* pvp is a major timesink. I'd really like to see this feature before AI PvP to be honest because it saves time for solos too.

Personally as someone who can go into tier 1 whether it be 500 or 700 AP, I do have to say that either a tier 0 would be quite nice for starting players or increase the level requirements of units allowed in tier 1 to level 5. Of course it does allow epics to be brought into tier 1, but on the other hand, someone who brings in epics is going to face an army of more units. Which in turn has to make players make better strategic options on how they should flank and get the advantage.

I want to make a slight change to the Tiers...lets see how it will go. The change will be implemented today...

RuneSlayer wrote:

I want to make a slight change to the Tiers...lets see how it will go. The change will be implemented today...

I still suggest that you cut the prices of everything by a few thousand...
The fact that many use gems to get ahead is good for you developers, bad for us free players...
But it will benefit us all if you lowered prices by a bit, that way there will still be some that pay gems, "Ruach and Soulthief for example" and some that play free, "Myself and Gimlithedrunk255, I just got the dragon loot, which also should be improved upon slightly".
If we just come to an agreement that both developers and members agree with, we'll all be happy

Light bulb!  

Maybe if the Devs agree we can implement this:

New quests that give a small amount of gems. Ex.-Fight 5 normal battles and get 15 gems(+resources).
                                        or
Lower the prices of all tech AND buildings.

This is mostly for noobs who struggle in the beginning.(the gems)

How about every time someone purchases resources with gems, every other player gets 1% of what they got? Solves everything!<sup>1

1: It solves nothing, it is a bad idea in many ways.</sup>

and how about every-other player pays them 1% of their gems?

Bblazer wrote:

and how about every-other player pays them 1% of their gems?

We're awesome with all of our bad ideas (please see the footnote on my previous comment above.)

Let's do it....*ysosad uses all his gems*...now!

RuneSlayer wrote:

I want to make a slight change to the Tiers...lets see how it will go. The change will be implemented today...

The new tiers seem to be a lot better and more reachable so far. Kudo's on this latest patch, seems all great changes have been made! I even got my first pvp win (in Olympus) today, yay!

Now just if resource drops were more frequent.