Should players be able to upgrade their command point limit?

Hello Everyone,

I'd made a previous post suggesting an increase to the command point ceiling. If you haven't seen that thread I encourage you to read the arguments for and against before voting.

Here is the link:
http://www.battleconforum.com/t1499-increase-command-point-limit

Thank you.

A very bad idea. And as you didn't put up into the votes a purchase it with anything else than gems or get them for free, I have to believe you just want to buy some advantage for yourself and the proposal isn't really about the ones who don't have much time for the game, just one period in a day.

Btw, there are coops and pvps if you want to play, much more social and more fun. Try them!

I like the base of your idea but not with gems
How about you upgrade you Command Center then get more Command Points

This is an interesting idea, but not with gems. I would have voted ''yes, with in-game gold'' or something the like. Now, I didn't vote

I think anything in this game should be available for every player. Well, at least serious in-game features like repair slots, all army banners, and such. Also the ones that are in such circumstances they can't afford a penny on these games. Let me work hard for it, perfectly fine, but this gem stuff....really ''frustrating''.

Ala wrote:

A very bad idea. And as you didn't put up into the votes a purchase it with anything else than gems or get them for free, I have to believe you just want to buy some advantage for yourself and the proposal isn't really about the ones who don't have much time for the game, just one period in a day.

Btw, there are coops and pvps if you want to play, much more social and more fun. Try them!

Hi Ala,

The issue was discussed on the link, which you can find on the first post. The reason I chose the 4 options was based on that discussion, I wish you had contributed. I took a good amount of time before posting this poll and afforded enough time to where I thought the discussion aspect was, more or less, over. A non-Gem purchasable version was not discussed.

I think of this purchase is more a "convenience¹" purchase, but that is just my interpretation. However, and I am loathe to do this, I will approach your statement as fact, that this affords an advantage for me and anyone else that purchases the upgrade.

Your decision to talk about this, in my opinion, implies that you think that there is something wrong/unjust about having real money purchases in the game. I disagree, I think that they CAN be, but it a far cry from a truism. This game that we are all playing cannot be sustained without such purchases, the developers, contrary to popular belief, are actual flesh and blood people and they are not running a charity.

If you read the thread that I linked, you will see that I respond to individuals that have said things similar to your last statement.

^{1: A convenience purchase would be something similar to auto-collect. A p2w purchase would be purchases of chests or Dragon's Loot....many, if not most, purchases do not fall strictly into one of those two categories.}

generalray wrote:

I like the base of your idea but not with gems
How about you upgrade you Command Center then get more Command Points

Johntheright wrote:

This is an interesting idea, but not with gems. I would have voted ''yes, with in-game gold'' or something the like. Now, I didn't vote

I think anything in this game should be available for every player. Well, at least serious in-game features like repair slots, all army banners, and such. Also the ones that are in such circumstances they can't afford a penny on these games. Let me work hard for it, perfectly fine, but this gem stuff....really ''frustrating''.

I've got nothing against these ideas...I would like to throw the developers a bone though. There are SO many worse purchasable options that could be included, I thought this was one that, if approved, a casual player would be OK with when they though about it.

*sigh* I wish you both had said something in the first thread. I'm regretting not putting this in as a 3rd "yes" option...even if it does throw off the symmetry and was not previously suggested.

Thank you generalray and Johntheright.

Ala wrote:

And as you didn't put up into the votes a purchase it with anything else than gems or get them for free, I have to believe you just want to buy some advantage for yourself and the proposal isn't really about the ones who don't have much time for the game, just one period in a day.

Johntheright wrote:

This is an interesting idea, but not with gems. I would have voted ''yes, with in-game gold'' or something the like. Now, I didn't vote

I agree with Ala & John the poll is too complicated.  I also did not like the idea of this being gem only. This poll is two separate questions¹ & too confusing in one poll.

From my own personal experience, its hard to make good polls. I suggest eventually redoing the poll, after this one runs for a few days.

---

¹Questions:

1. Implement this feature?
   
2. If implemented, how to design the implementation?

Ysosad, giving more command points for money is not only a convenience thing. It is also an advantage thing on the map, and we already have something like that (wall building), it is more than enough i guess. I understand for you it seems to be only convenient, but think about the strategical aspect and the impact on the community too.

You have to understand, that though paying players keep the game afloating, the non-paying players also do that.
Because if they start to think this is a P2W game, they will just leave. And as the majority is non-payer, the payers will be left alone, and they can't purchase their "win" over anybody.

I do think there have to be convenience stuff for money, and I could say tons of ideas for that purpose. But I think giving more CP to payers is just a plain bad idea. (CP as conquest points, as more command points lead to more conquest points)

Give it to everyone or to none. Like they gave less healing time to everybody. And it wasn't accidental devs gave it to everybody, they know where they can and should ask for money and where they shouldn't. (I hope so )

(And a poll won't be good just because no-one put in an effort to write down to you previously that it is bad, you could have still figured it out yourself - so I guess I can still criticize your negligence )

I agree with Joyce, a new poll is needed. If needed at all..

Ala wrote:

Ysosad, giving more command points for money is not only a convenience thing. It is also an advantage thing on the map, and we already have something like that (wall building), it is more than enough i guess. I understand for you it seems to be only convenient, but think about the strategical aspect and the impact on the community too.

I don't think it is only a convenience purchase, but I think that it is much closer to convenience than p2w on the spectrum...you see it the other way and I can understand and respect that viewpoint. I've considered the strategic aspect to at least some degree and I personally think: 1. It is being exaggerated and 2. perfect balance is not desirable, at least not for long. (If I feel that no matter how hard I fight, how well I fight, and how tirelessly I do so doesn't change anything...then I will probably just stop fighting.)

I think that I lack the imagination to fully grasp what sort of impact such a change will have on the community, it is a matter of perception which will deviate to different degrees from the reality of the situation.

Ala wrote:

You have to understand, that though paying players keep the game afloating, the non-paying players also do that.
Because if they start to think this is a P2W game, they will just leave. And as the majority is non-payer, the payers will be left alone, and they can't purchase their "win" over anybody.

I am aware that both types of players (and those in between) are what sustain the game. I have tried to point out that I hope/believe/pray/insertyourwordofchoicehere that people on the paying side would pay for it and appreciate it, while those that forego such purchases realize that it is similar to auto-bank....so both sides still generate the same amount of resources/CP, just the timetable to collect/use them is different.

Ala wrote:

I do think there have to be convenience stuff for money, and I could say tons of ideas for that purpose. But I think giving more CP to payers is just a plain bad idea. (CP as conquest points, as more command points lead to more conquest points)

I agree with the first sentence. To clarify regarding your second sentence: additional CmP is not being given, the suggestion is that you can increase the ceiling. (example: You and I have 5 CmP, I increase my CmP cap to 15, you keep yours at 10. In 2.5 hours you will reach your ceiling and will have to use a CmP or you are effectively losing CmPs. I, on the other hand, have a full 5 hours before the same can be said of me.) That said, I agree with you that "giving more CP to payers is just a plain bad idea."

Ala wrote:

Give it to everyone or to none. Like they gave less healing time to everybody. And it wasn't accidental devs gave it to everybody, they know where they can and should ask for money and where they shouldn't. (I hope so )

I'm fine with them giving it to everyone, or having them earn it. I'm not sure if they would do so, but why not ask and see, right?

Ala wrote:

(And a poll won't be good just because no-one put in an effort to write down to you previously that it is bad, you could have still figured it out yourself - so I guess I can still criticize your negligence )

I agree with Joyce, a new poll is needed. If needed at all..

It was a conscious decision to not put an option that no one had supported in the discussion¹ -(obviously a very poor choice in retrospect)- so you may not criticize me for being negligent, but rather for being plain stupid.

^{1: Which is because it was not suggested during the discussion, not because I want to make everything p2w for my own advantage. In the interest of transparency: I have dragon's loot and have unlocked all the repair slots. I have not purchased anything else, this includes VIP or anything that you can get through VIP, including auto-bank or any increase to resource generation. Not sure that anyone cares, but it makes me feel better...kinda...not really.}   

Perfect balance is not desirable, true. However it isn't supposed to be avoided by money, but hard fighting, good strategies, tenacity, cunning and so on.

And if you have higher ceiling than me you will earn more CPs. Why? because I lose the Command Point within shorter period of time with being away from the game. (And my loss is your relative "gain")
+ When you start playing in the morning or whenever you usually start, you will have more Command points gathered during the night.
If you can't play more with this addition than before, why would you want it? If you can play more, you can really get more CPs than the non-payers. And that's it, I don't like it.

I still say, do coops and PVPs, they are for free. And you are welcome there. Allowing players to do even more solo makes the game even less multiplayer.

Ala wrote:

Perfect balance is not desirable, true. However it isn't supposed to be avoided by money, but hard fighting, good strategies, tenacity, cunning and so on.

And if you have higher ceiling than me you will earn more CPs. Why? because I lose the Command Point within shorter period of time with being away from the game. (And my loss is your relative "gain")
+ When you start playing in the morning or whenever you usually start, you will have more Command points gathered during the night.
If you can't play more with this addition than before, why would you want it? If you can play more, you can really get more CPs than the non-payers. And that's it, I don't like it.

I still say, do coops and PVPs, they are for free. And you are welcome there. Allowing players to do even more solo makes the game even less multiplayer.

ysosad wrote:

Ala wrote:

Give it to everyone or to none. Like they gave less healing time to everybody. And it wasn't accidental devs gave it to everybody, they know where they can and should ask for money and where they shouldn't. (I hope so )

I'm fine with them giving it to everyone, or having them earn it. I'm not sure if they would do so, but why not ask and see, right?

I'm not opposed to it being free, nor am I opposed to it being a paid addition. I do not like my CmPs going to waste because I have to do silly things like sleep. I'd likely be willing to pay for the ability to do so for more than 5 hours at a time, and I would definitely take it for free. I think any such addition is similar to auto-bank (which you could argue quite easily gives paying players an advantage and I'd agree with you. Yet, I am content with it being a paid addition because I think it tends towards the convenience, not the p2w) if it has to be renewed after a given time period.

I do play coops, though not PvP...the latter has a cost, just not the one you and I have been talking about. That cost would be just fine if PvP were what it should be, but it isn't IMO. Thankfully, the existence of solos and coops means that I don't have to do PvP, if PvP were left as it is and the other two were taken away, I'd quit the game that same day...I have a feeling the same could be said of many players.

"Allowing players to do even more solo makes the game even less multiplayer.": I've addressed this viewpoint a few times now. My statements to follow refer to PvP only, as I play coops I don't think it necessary to repeat the solo v. coop reasoning.

There is a correlation between solos and PvPs where if you incentivize one you may see a dropoff in the other.

The increase in one will likely not mirror the decrease in the other, the decline on the one will be less than the addition to the other. This means that there exists the potential to improve both if you make changes to both.

The failure to draw many players into PvP matches is a failing of the PvP system, solos only look as good as they do because they're standing next to the ugly chick/dude (PvP) at prom. Put a good dress/suit on both of them and they'll both get more dance offers...take away solos and PvP still looks just as ugly (and you've also taken away her/his one friend in the world  )¹

I've appreciated that you've put a great deal of thought in your responses on this thread Ala. I don't think we're going to agree on this entirely, or even much at all, but that is OK.

Thank you.

^{1: Why, you ask, has ysosad chosen to make the comparison using prom? Could it be that he had a traumatic experience at prom? I bet ysosad is quite ugly and looked bad in his dres...I mean suit...for his prom.}

I like the prom comparison And yep, I hope PVP gets some love next week so it won't have to be so ugly anymore

Well I think it is good if it gets a higher ceiling. Resources could get higher too.

If it is like you can get 1 more command points with every 5 upgrades of the command center, I think it would be great.

I voted for yes, but it needs to be refreshable like auto-collect.

The reason I voted for this (after reading the discussion) was because despite the fact that it has potential to effect the map...players on both factions will use it.

I'm assuming it would only increase the ceiling cap of command points, not the CP regeneration rate...so say they made it a 50% boost, a player could attain 15 CPs instead of the regular 10.

Admittedly, I've had a few too many drinks to bother with the math...

But I can't see a cap increase in CPs by 5 to be very hurtful to the game, especially when it gives the devs more fuel to run this machine, and is openly available to both sides (both of which have plenty of players who would invest in this feature)

How about a counter suggestion.

As you possibly know, there will be in battle consumables soonTM. Those will be craftable by players with some stuff we get from battles. Maybe we can just have another craftable item/scroll/potion that will be given/read/fed to the army so they regain their strengh and feel less tired - and grant the player 5 CP upon use.

A tasty suggestion indeed, Tibr

Though I maintain, we need more ways to invest in the game for the benefit of all