Light Vs Darkness (The Eternal Conflict)

Posts : 375 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Denmark

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: which, to me, points to a issue raised earlier on new CP system. increasing the cap on insane and removing it from suicide very much benefits the higher-end players.
looking at the global rankings it's painfully obvious there are plenty more light players in that bracket than darkies, especially with several highranking dark players having quit. the CP bonus in its current form is not sufficient to counterbalance this.
how now?

The CP bonus was not implemented so as to create a CP stalemate in the game. It was created to compensate, to a certain extent, for the population difference between the 2 Factions.

How fast players lvl up or how many veteran players stay or not to each Faction, is not something that we would use "forced mechanics" to balance it out.

Stopping new players from joining the Light Faction thus trying to create some "kind of balance" is still not an option?(Until rankings even out a bit?)

If "forced mechanics" can't be used to regulate or at least point the game in a certain direction, why not just set the game free - meaning no CP bonus to any faction at all?(Let the game take its natural course!) Why keep fiddling with things that give people hope, yet only delivers muddy and unclear results?

Btw I'm making less cps now in a coop fight than before, so the CP bonus clearly hasn't helped a player like me, sorry!

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Boboknack wrote:: If "forced mechanics" can't be used to regulate or at least point the game in a certain direction, why not just set the game free - meaning no CP bonus to any faction at all?(Let the game take its natural course!) Why keep fiddling with things that give people hope, yet only delivers muddy and unclear results?

As explained above, the CP bonus was implemented in an effort to reduce the gap between the two populations and the effect that difference has.

The CP bonus is not rewarding the side which is working less towards their goal, and in fact it will scale according to how much they "want it" i.e. how many battles they are playing. It is not a mechanic which will lead to stalemate, unless that is what you are after. It cannot be considered as a forced mechanic but it only works as a "balancer" to a game which cannot have a perfect population balance as it is a multiplayer game with free of Faction choice.

The Unyielding Posts : 802 Join date : 2013-05-31

Could you give some numbers on a random one day period.. of victories and CPs?
So we wouldn't have to guess too much.

And what's the cp average for the factions?

Also, what's the reasoning exactly that CP earners and simcity players are counted equally? Sure they might be counted, but why they're the same? Why not fighter counts as 2-3 activity points or something, and login as 1? That way fighting is encouraged further.

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Fyrr wrote:: Could you give some numbers on a random one day period.. of victories and CPs?
So we wouldn't have to guess too much.

And what's the cp average for the factions?

Also, what's the reasoning exactly that CP earners and simcity players are counted equally? Sure they might be counted, but why they're the same? Why not fighter counts as 2-3 activity points or something, and login as 1? That way fighting is encouraged further.

I will provide today's data tomorrow, so as to have a clear indication of how the war is going.

Both CP earners and simcity players are helping a Faction with their own way. It is up to the Factions to determine how to better utilize their members. What sort of encouragement is needed when the CP efforts of both Factions are shown in the world map in the context of gaining/losing Regions? Also, the more a Faction fights, the higher the strength of the Capital Army and the higher the CP bonus for the underpopulated Faction.

We will also increase the AP allowance per Barracks lvl.

Posts : 331 Join date : 2013-05-02

RuneSlayer wrote:: Also, the more a Faction fights, the higher the strength of the Capital Army and the higher the CP bonus for the underpopulated Faction.

Thx for the info! I always was wondering, why the numbers change from time to time.

RuneSlayer wrote:: We will also increase the AP allowance per Barracks lvl.

Posts : 103 Join date : 2013-10-28

RuneSlayer wrote:

Fyrr wrote:: Could you give some numbers on a random one day period.. of victories and CPs?
So we wouldn't have to guess too much.

And what's the cp average for the factions?

Also, what's the reasoning exactly that CP earners and simcity players are counted equally? Sure they might be counted, but why they're the same? Why not fighter counts as 2-3 activity points or something, and login as 1? That way fighting is encouraged further.

I will provide today's data tomorrow, so as to have a clear indication of how the war is going.

Both CP earners and simcity players are helping a Faction with their own way. It is up to the Factions to determine how to better utilize their members. What sort of encouragement is needed when the CP efforts of both Factions are shown in the world map in the context of gaining/losing Regions? Also, the more a Faction fights, the higher the strength of the Capital Army and the higher the CP bonus for the underpopulated Faction.

We will also increase the AP allowance per Barracks lvl.

I like your idea Fyrr. I believe some simcity players do help the faction, however, we have plenty of "simcity" players that don't interact with any of the population, no trading, no guild donations, no battling. I am sure this is true on both sides. I like Fyrr's idea of creating some sort of activity bonus. Even if a simcity player interacts with the community, I'd say someone that battles 50-60 times a day or more, is helping their faction *more* than someone that just farms and trade resources.

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

RuneSlayer wrote:: It is up to the Factions to determine how to better utilize their members.

this IS a game, bottomline. we can't force players to act in a certain way, nor kick them out of the faction. i think fyrr's suggestion is valid. if the game requires fighting, and if fighting is a determining factor, downgrade the impact of simplayers. there is only so much guilds/guildleaders can do towards motivating players. and even if a player is kicked from a guild for not fighting enough, his simming will still hurt the faction as guildess player.

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Data for 24/7

Light

Active Players: 434
Total Daily Victories: 1235
Total CP: 144000

Darkness

Active Players: 346
Total Daily Victories: 772
Total CP: 106000

Posts : 375 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Denmark

RuneSlayer wrote:

Boboknack wrote:: If "forced mechanics" can't be used to regulate or at least point the game in a certain direction, why not just set the game free - meaning no CP bonus to any faction at all?(Let the game take its natural course!) Why keep fiddling with things that give people hope, yet only delivers muddy and unclear results?

As explained above, the CP bonus was implemented in an effort to reduce the gap between the two populations and the effect that difference has.

The CP bonus is not rewarding the side which is working less towards their goal, and in fact it will scale according to how much they "want it" i.e. how many battles they are playing. It is not a mechanic which will lead to stalemate, unless that is what you are after. It cannot be considered as a forced mechanic but it only works as a "balancer" to a game which cannot have a perfect population balance as it is a multiplayer game with free of Faction choice.

Nah, I don't want a stalemate. I just want an enjoyable game that is possible winning and with people entering the coop queue - 7/24 was the worst day, I have ever experienced in this game, not possible to get a coop battle at around 8 pm (European central time) Which I think says it all.

You guys, the devs reacted to late and now we are stuck with the consequences. Sad

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

Posts : 375 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Denmark

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

Unique logins?

If a player connects several times a day, lets say in all 4 times, is he/she then being counted as 4 players?

Subject: Re: Light Vs Darkness (The Eternal Conflict) Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:17 am

Boboknack wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

Unique logins?

If a player connects several times a day, lets say in all 4 times, is he/she then being counted as 4 players?

Thats the exact opposite of unique login...

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

that means: player accounts? on the rankings, there are only ~300 names >20 cps. and, looking at the guild rankings, a significant % of those are inactive..

hear me well: i'm trying to figure things out. from these numbers (24/7), on average, darkies had 2 victories each..

The Restless Posts : 445 Join date : 2013-11-24

RuneSlayer wrote:: Data for 24/7

Light

Active Players: 434
Total Daily Victories: 1235
Total CP: 144000

Darkness

Active Players: 346
Total Daily Victories: 772
Total CP: 106000

Hey Rune,

Thanks for the figures. I think that you said in a previous post that ya'll were working on something to give more transparency of what is going on in-game...could you elaborate some on what that might look like when it is ready? Also, roughly, do you know how long it might take?

Thanks again.

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

that means: player accounts? on the rankings, there are only ~300 names >20 cps. and, looking at the guild rankings, a significant % of those are inactive..

hear me well: i'm trying to figure things out. from these numbers (24/7), on average, darkies had 2 victories each..

That is correct klaas, and light players 2,8. Bear in mind these are avg.

ysosad wrote:: Hey Rune,

Thanks for the figures. I think that you said in a previous post that ya'll were working on something to give more transparency of what is going on in-game...could you elaborate some on what that might look like when it is ready? Also, roughly, do you know how long it might take?

Thanks again.

It will be a window which will have data such as the ones I post. I cannot give a time frame for that as we are working on several things.

The Restless Posts : 445 Join date : 2013-11-24

RuneSlayer wrote:

ysosad wrote:: Hey Rune,

Thanks for the figures. I think that you said in a previous post that ya'll were working on something to give more transparency of what is going on in-game...could you elaborate some on what that might look like when it is ready? Also, roughly, do you know how long it might take?

Thanks again.

It will be a window which will have data such as the ones I post. I cannot give a time frame for that as we are working on several things.

Would it be possible to add a tab, maybe to the rankings, that displays all players that are 'active' for that day?

That would be the 434 Light and 346 Dark players in the case of 7/24, by name, regardless of CP/Fame totals

Thanks.

Posts : 375 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Denmark

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

that means: player accounts? on the rankings, there are only ~300 names >20 cps. and, looking at the guild rankings, a significant % of those are inactive..

hear me well: i'm trying to figure things out. from these numbers (24/7), on average, darkies had 2 victories each..

That is correct klaas, and light players 2,8. Bear in mind these are avg.

ysosad wrote:: Hey Rune,

Thanks for the figures. I think that you said in a previous post that ya'll were working on something to give more transparency of what is going on in-game...could you elaborate some on what that might look like when it is ready? Also, roughly, do you know how long it might take?

Thanks again.

It will be a window which will have data such as the ones I post. I cannot give a time frame for that as we are working on several things.

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

that means: player accounts? on the rankings, there are only ~300 names >20 cps. and, looking at the guild rankings, a significant % of those are inactive..

hear me well: i'm trying to figure things out. from these numbers (24/7), on average, darkies had 2 victories each..

That is correct klaas, and light players 2,8. Bear in mind these are avg.

OK. cool.
now, like i said earlier: it's not, for us, really feasible to make people fight. there is only so much players can do to motivate other players.

this game very much revolves around fighting. both in pure terms on the map, but also for the cp bonus. isn;t it possible to take the farmers out of the equation? like, not count the players who have 0 vcitories/day at all?
that would give a far clearer picture i think

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: on those numbers:
Runeslayer, how are "active players" counted? number of logins total, or number of playeraccounts on which is logged in?

Number of unique logins.

that means: player accounts? on the rankings, there are only ~300 names >20 cps. and, looking at the guild rankings, a significant % of those are inactive..

hear me well: i'm trying to figure things out. from these numbers (24/7), on average, darkies had 2 victories each..

That is correct klaas, and light players 2,8. Bear in mind these are avg.

OK. cool.
now, like i said earlier: it's not, for us, really feasible to make people fight. there is only so much players can do to motivate other players.

this game very much revolves around fighting. both in pure terms on the map, but also for the cp bonus. isn;t it possible to take the farmers out of the equation? like, not count the players who have 0 vcitories/day at all?
that would give a far clearer picture i think

Both factions have players who do a lot of battles and players who don't do a lot of battles. Without a doubt, both players are important as the war requires both resources and victories. Since the algo is valid for both Factions, then both Factions follow the same rules, so there is no difference between these 2 groups in terms of how the mechanics work.

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

now you are assuming the % of farmers is the same in both factions.
are there numbers to support that?

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

klaas wrote:: now you are assuming the % of farmers is the same in both factions.
are there numbers to support that?

You are looking for a complete balanced population both in numbers, skills and type of players. As I have said many times, this is not possible in a multiplayer game.

All mechanics implemented are valid for both Factions, so they are both playing under the same rules. Both Factions have inactives, farmers, fighters, low/high lvl players...

We will not add mechanics which will force a stalemate.

Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-10-17

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: now you are assuming the % of farmers is the same in both factions.
are there numbers to support that?

You are looking for a complete balanced population both in numbers, skills and type of players. As I have said many times, this is not possible in a multiplayer game.

All mechanics implemented are valid for both Factions, so they are both playing under the same rules. Both Factions have inactives, farmers, fighters, low/high lvl players...

We will not add mechanics which will force a stalemate.

no i am not. i am trying to help you keep this game alive.

balancing mechanisms based on assumptions are risky. i am asking you to look at the actual numbers perhap we can give suggestions.

you state "lighties fight more". i then get curious about the % of farmers.

Posts : 22 Join date : 2014-03-06

In either faction:

The value of a farmer < The value of a fighter. Why treat them the same in the equations? Because it's easier?

Posts : 375 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Denmark

RuneSlayer wrote:

klaas wrote:: now you are assuming the % of farmers is the same in both factions.
are there numbers to support that?

You are looking for a complete balanced population both in numbers, skills and type of players. As I have said many times, this is not possible in a multiplayer game.

All mechanics implemented are valid for both Factions, so they are both playing under the same rules. Both Factions have inactive, farmers, fighters, low/high lvl players...

We will not add mechanics which will force a stalemate.

Then why have a CP bonus in the first place? Dark faction will be quashed a lot faster= Survival of the fittest= no stalemate.

Maybe Dark faction only has got 100 active players whilst the Light faction may have 175 active players(CP makers)? That could be an issue, especially if it has an affect on CP's.

You have to take into account that on the last map, we the Dark faction got punished every time we made an effort and that fact has resulted in people giving up on the game, that is why my/our guild is in the top 5 Dark rankings. On the last map, we just barely made it into top 10. You have to take ownership of that. It may be a multiplayer game, but everything you guys do or do not do is having tremendous effects on the game

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