Useless Dary Arty

I know many darks complain about the "useless dark artillery piece" it can shoot trough obstacles and it have bigger radius, but they deal too low damage and are extremely unacurate espcially because there is no way to improve they, only pray that you have enough luck to get a little 3+ missile bonus for a level up, its very desmotivating for me have played another five months and have wasted lots of recourses on unlocking and hiring those big pieces of junk that got a kill range of 2-16 kills and very rarely 30+ kills without slauthing your own units with that great FF radius and my archers getting between 15-25 kills easily having less ap, I dont know is everyone consider this a problem but I am not posting this here because I am unhappy with it, its because most darks never uses their arty or very rarely use it, many dark players have deleted their artillery pieces for their useless accuracy and for the serius FF they cause, and I have see screens of light arty slaugthing between 80-100 enemies¡ in pvp and pve and I proved many times the great power of lighg arty decimating my GL HI in 4 volleys or a little more in pvp and pve for that I consider this a unbalance issue and for me isnt just go to pvp and my army can be half+ killed by enemy arty and archers before I touch they and my arty failing a lots of shots and killing 1 unit in the only lucky shots I really dont know what do to make dark arty dont suck too much because arty is really needed for me to counter those robin hood and campers armies in pvp and the only way I have chance to win a pvp is my opponent having worse gear, full melee battles, opponent goes disconected, 2vs2 with a seriusly parnert, or is my opponent is just dumb enough.

I hope you don't mind but I tried to clean this post up a little so more people can see this issue:

Many darks complain about their useless artillery. It can shoot through obstacles and has a bigger radius, but deal very low damage and is extremely inaccurate. They can't take gear, so any improvements rely on luck from level-up rolls. It's demotivating to play for months and waste resources buying these big pieces of junk that have a small kill range and often slaughter your own units. My archers get more kills while using less AP.

I don't know if everyone considers this a problem but I'm not posting this because I'm unhappy with it, I'm posting it because most darks never use their arti and deleted them because of how bad they are. I have many screens of light arti killing 80 to 100 enemies in PVP and PVE, including decimating my GL HI in 4 volleys. I consider this unbalanced.

I can go into PVP and my army can be half+ killed by enemy ranged units before I touch them, and my arti can maybe kill a few people before their units get to me. I don't really know what to do to make dark arti not suck as much because it's needed for me to counter those campers' armies in PVP.

Now I would like to go ahead and say that I disagree with your assessment that Light Artillery is too good and can only be countered with better Dark Artillery, because tbh Light Artillery isn't all that great and most of our best PVPers don't use it for that reason.

I do agree that Dark Artillery is pretty bad right now though. I can send a single Assault Infantry at 2 artillery, and they'll get there and kill both without losing even half their numbers.

If you want my opinion on what should be changed? Quit trying to force the two artillery to be so much different. If you make Dark Artillery the only one that can shoot over obstacles, it's either going to be so weak it's useless or so strong it's overkill. It'll be almost impossible to balance it between the two.

Make Dark Artillery incapable of firing over obstacles, and you don't need to have all those nerfs included in it.

I don't know if we talk about the same art... This dark art can decimate my archers so much easly, and LiA/LI generaly, orc archers can kill easier HIs though, so the art is here to avoid oppoenet's archers to kill yours...

I don't PvP...but at this point I have played a great deal of PvE versus every type of artillery on the Light and Dark side.

Dark artillery is less effective than Light artillery in almost all scenarios, but it isn't even close.

Whether my units are spread widely apart or not, whether they are engaged in a melee or not, regardless of the unit types...every Light artillery outperforms Dark as a deterrent and a real threat...and does so by a wide margin.

When Ulises talks about Dark artillery getting around 30 kills on a good day, he is talking about Dark artillery mainly attacking LI/LIA/Archers. When he is talking about Light artillery getting around 80 kills on a good day, he is talking about Dark artillery mainly attacking the same units and HI (if only 1/4 of those are HI, the Light arti was over 3X as effective).

FoW diminished the effectiveness of Dark artillery in a very large way, increasing the radius of the attack has done little to improve the unit.

Here are two suggestions to 'correct' the differential:

1. Allow both Light and Dark artillery to alternate between mortar and cannon types, switching between the two modes takes X attack rounds.
2. Reduce Dark AoE radius, but also give Dark artillery a 'burn' ability - the initial damage is the same, but units passing through/remaining in areas hit by Dark artillery sustain additional damage over time. The effect only impacts while inside these areas, impacts friend and foe alike, these areas disappear after X attack rounds. (gives Dark a viable tool against 'camped' units, range units in the fog and can be used strategically to funnel the enemy away from/toward a certain direction)

Tops wrote:

I hope you don't mind but I tried to clean this post up a little so more people can see this issue:

yay, let's skip all the numbers and add own info.. Why?

Tops wrote:

because tbh Light Artillery isn't all that great and most of our best PVPers don't use it for that reason.

Names please. Unless you count all those 'good' pvpers who haven't even unlocked cannons yet, then of course they wouldn't use it.
Level-wise (T5) (and good winrate) the best pvper is vmomo, and it's hard to see him without cannons. Others too, it's usual to see a dwarf with a few heavies and 1-2 cannons.. Except elves sometimes because it's better to bring archers instead of artillery, but it's not because light arty is weak - it's because archers are even better.

Tops wrote:

Make Dark Artillery incapable of firing over obstacles, and you don't need to have all those nerfs included in it.

Why is non-LoS such a big deal now? Are you aware that dark artys have huge damage penalties for shooting over obstacles? They used to be effective to force enemies out of hiding, but with FoW that effect is minimized. So even non-LoS is a nerf in itself.

Vmomo wrote:

I don't know if we talk about the same art... This dark art can decimate my archers so much easly, and LiA/LI generaly, orc archers can kill easier HIs though, so the art is here to avoid oppoenet's archers to kill yours...

where do you even meet ork artillery? If you're talking about PvE, enemy has higher AP and can allow himself more units. PvP.. If an arty gets 30 kills, you could say it's good, right? But try to think how your own arty would do with the same enemy? I think it'd be a lot more than those 30 kills...  
Also, low tiers/low gear, then any cannon can be good and kill some stuff. Though it's hardly relevant... We aren't talking about their viability, but about how different the damage is.
(remember our T5s, with you getting tons of kills with your cannons and when I bring mine, I don't kill much?..)

yso wrote:

give Dark artillery a 'burn' ability

it would be so awesome.. and people in dark coops would complain so much about having to die while walking over that (noobs..). Ha.

Fyrr wrote:

Vmomo wrote:

I don't know if we talk about the same art... This dark art can decimate my archers so much easly, and LiA/LI generaly, orc archers can kill easier HIs though, so the art is here to avoid oppoenet's archers to kill yours...

where do you even meet ork artillery? If you're talking about PvE, enemy has higher AP and can allow himself more units. PvP.. If an arty gets 30 kills, you could say it's good, right? But try to think how your own arty would do with the same enemy? I think it'd be a lot more than those 30 kills...  
Also, low tiers/low gear, then any cannon can be good and kill some stuff. Though it's hardly relevant... We aren't talking about their viability, but about how different the damage is.
(remember our T5s, with you getting tons of kills with your cannons and when I bring mine, I don't kill much?..)

I never saw someone playing greatly with a dark arty in PvP, they generaly focus my HI, so they won't hurt it a lot aha...
Dark arty force the lightie to attack you, mine.. That depends, if he moves correctly i almost can't shoot.
For our battles, remember human cannons range. :p

"Useless Dary Arty"
Dary should be Dark
and arty should be Arti
*The teacher strikes again* @@

Pulkit wrote:

"Useless Dary Arty"
Dary should be Dark
and arty should be Arti
*The teacher strikes again* @@

it should be artillery, or arty in short.... It's a lot more natural to end words in -y in English. (also arti is generally used for artifacts...)

Perhaps you know some great pvpers who never use artillery?

Vmomo wrote:

I never saw someone playing greatly with a dark arty in PvP, they generaly focus my HI, so they won't hurt it a lot aha...
Dark arty force the lightie to attack you, mine.. That depends, if he moves correctly i almost can't shoot.
For our battles, remember human cannons range. :p

How would you even know that enemy has dark arty when we have FoW?
Let's do more T5s.
And tell me how you imagine the best tactic for dark arty would be. If I bring cannons and camp.. And you bring yours with superior range and also camp... And using ground attack in random places... You think we'd even finish before time out?
And you know what.? People might target your archers or LI, but since our accuracy is so awesome, it ends up shooting somewhere else. (hm, I should try targetting heavies, I bet that'd kill more archers).

Fyrr wrote:

Vmomo wrote:

I never saw someone playing greatly with a dark arty in PvP, they generaly focus my HI, so they won't hurt it a lot aha...
Dark arty force the lightie to attack you, mine.. That depends, if he moves correctly i almost can't shoot.
For our battles, remember human cannons range. :p

How would you even know that enemy has dark arty when we have FoW?
Let's do more T5s.
And tell me how you imagine the best tactic for dark arty would be. If I bring cannons and camp.. And you bring yours with superior range and also camp... And using ground attack in random places... You think we'd even finish before time out?
And you know what.? People might target your archers or LI, but since our accuracy is so awesome, it ends up shooting somewhere else. (hm, I should try targetting heavies, I bet that'd kill more archers).

When he saw me or when he attacks ground... ^^
Hoping for gear sets right now.
Not really, even if both move sometimes, that's why i don't love art move...
That's just luck, as my mishoots or the time that i take to shoot sometimes.

Vmono, are you a Dwarf player?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Vmono, are you a Dwarf player?

Human, why ?

Vmomo wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Vmono, are you a Dwarf player?

Human, why ?

Why would race matter? Well, human range is nice....

If rune is thinking of suggesting cavs to counter cannons, then.. They're useless in most cases. Cannons are protected (by li, hi etc) and usually in high tiers people bring archer or two to kill scout cav :p (humans and elves can kill cav so easily... dwarves bring those horrible heavies to guard everything).
On average, in t5 I bring 4 cavs and maybe few HPs of them live long enough when the opponent focuses on other units.

Vmomo wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Vmono, are you a Dwarf player?

Human, why ?

Cause if you were a Dwarf player I would say "Give them hell!".....but since you are not.... *shrug*

RuneSlayer wrote:

Vmomo wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Vmono, are you a Dwarf player?

Human, why ?

Cause if you were a Dwarf player I would say "Give them hell!".....but since you are not.... *shrug*  

that's racist!!
I always thought that only demons were the ones entitled to use hell references :p

Any artillery-related comments?

We could increase its accuracy a bit, but we don't want to go overboard, as its accuracy is supposed to be its weakness...

Fyrr wrote:

Tops wrote:

I hope you don't mind but I tried to clean this post up a little so more people can see this issue:

yay, let's skip all the numbers and add own info.. Why?

I didn't add any of my own info in that post? And wherever I didn't have exact numbers previously included was usually because it was part of a ridiculously long run-on sentence I was trying to clean up.

RuneSlayer wrote:

We could increase its accuracy a bit, but we don't want to go overboard, as its accuracy is supposed to be its weakness...

The problem is that their weakness is not only accuracy they deal significantly less damage to any kind of enemy I am not telling you make dark arty as good as light but ( just improving a "bit" the accuracy sersiuly can make dark players use those things and at least be effective on killing LI/LIA and ranged?).