New Ranking System

Do you even think that any of the 0 cp veterans will get any aether by the end of the cycle? I dont, and they shouldnt.
And as for olympus, you cant have overread all the "whine" about olympus players are at disadvantage that is throughout the whole topic ..

XViper wrote:

How did Olympus players get screwed exactly?

Did you guys not get to keep your city progress or something?
Have I missed something?

You guys also all have far more Aether than any of us due to the 'quick wins' experienced in Olympus.

End of the day, I'm not really that upset either way. I'm not so attached to my ego that I need to have some kind of high rank to feel worth something. I just don't see why this is such a big deal?? :\  Especially if you'll be able to 'sort' by CP anyway??

No Olympus did not keep any city progress or any fame. They were returned any gems they had spent and had to start from 0 everything else. So all money they had spent on the game was not lost, but all time and effort spent getting to where they were before they went to Olympus was. And all production was changed they had to start from scratch and pay more to build new. That was why I put out the suggestion about trying to restore some sort of credit for that from backups from before they transfered to Olympus. I do not know how long Battle Conquest backups are kept.

Tibr wrote:

Do you even think that any of the 0 cp veterans will get any aether by the end of the cycle? I dont, and they shouldnt.
And as for olympus, you cant have overread all the "whine" about olympus players are at disadvantage that is throughout the whole topic ..

Of course not, I know that many Olympus players are talking about Olympus here, but not everybody is.  I think it's unfair to generalize this as an Olympus issue when it's really about activity vs development.

It would be like if we repeated that your side was just a bunch of kings who want to keep their thrones over and over.

As for where 0 cp vets will place, that depends on how long this drags on.  It is clear that the light side generates far more CP so I do see it as a possibility that 0 CP vets will place in the top 100.  

Also, this is not an argument targeted only at 0cp players, but also low cp players.  I think it's a safe bet that low CP vets will take some of the top 100 spots from more active players.

XViper wrote:

How did Olympus players get screwed exactly?

Did you guys not get to keep your city progress or something?

Pls notice that the disatvantage from olympus is not my argument for cps ranking,it dont belong in this topic..

but u asked and i will give the answer..

(pls remember im no gem user,and i can just talk about my private disatvantage)

-i left everos with nearly the same city-progress i have now, after leaving olympus,..(so i could say my fame could be double and most of my units could have about 3_lv more..most of my units\heros have lv 11-13 now..on everos most units\heros had about lv 11 or something like that,not sure)

-olympus player had higher costs in building up their cities\researchs

-i left my whole equip\frags ect with nice epics\gls ect on everos in the vault,ruach\joyce sended most stuff as gift to everos light players

-(i got nothing,as im no gem user,and just gem users had the advantage to get their gems back to build them faster up on olympus..)

-now im in the same world back with everos people,who lost nothing from their progress or equip
(thats ok for me but its a disatvantage and that was the question)

-some of my equip could still exist perhaps i can find it on the market in the future if im lucky^^

EDIT.(i have to quote Plonck from another Topic cose i couldnt put it in better words than he did)

>>

Plonck wrote:

(..)
.., people with two accounts are now even getting paid with gems for the second one, while people who had to make their way on Olympus just get an "oops".

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now my bonus from olympus..:

-i got äther 2 times for losing the capital (yay)


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so thats my private disatvantage i got for going to olympus but thats NOT my reason for wanting a cps ranking and it dont really belong in this topic
(my private oppinion)

i always wanted and asked for rankings based on CPs even back in the time when i was in everos!
- cps rankings shows the real power of a player\guild and the aktivity
- cps rankings award the aktiv players who make the progress for the war
-fame rankings just put inaktive and low aktive Players in the top-list where they dont belong and give no real motivation to the aktiv people to fight..
..and u can grow your fame with gems but cps comes only from investing time and fighting aktive

(pay2win or play2win on rankings)..


when i look in the rankings,im looking for information to learn who is aktive and how strong are the guilds ect..but with fame rankings i can just see who came from everos and that u are longer a part of the game then others..

..and jes i want fame to be listed,so i can compare how long a player is part of the game with his cps to get a better picture, but i want the rankings to be based on cps

i totally agree with Anduin in this Topic and he allready explained most things with better words than i could do it in english..

greetings

I wish everyone would just think about wtf we are arguing about and realize that they are two different things that can both be solved.

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We have overall ranks (per cycle and all-time) and then we have combat ranks.

The player that is building walls, donating, bribing, being a diplomat, leading a guild...those are all great...but if s/he is not gaining CP, then WHY WOULD S/HE CARE ABOUT AETHER???

Incorporate city score into the ranks, but set a minimum CP threshold for an individual to qualify for the Aether rewards...when the time comes to distribute the Aether rewards only combatants above a threshold are eligible. If a player in the top 100 didn't reach that mark, everyone below that player moves up 1 rank for the calculation.

Veterans don't need more Aether by virtue of being a veteran, they get it because they fought to get a reward that helps them fight better.

They can still be ranked #XXX without fighting (by fame or city score), but they only get Aether if they are actually aiming to get Aether (which means they need to fight some).

Also, like Tibr suggested, there should be a Hall of Fame...it is a memorial to the players that have accomplished a great deal over the history of the game for any new player to see. However, it is just a memorial, it does not give any Aether, gems, etc. HOWEVER, this hall of fame can bestow unique titles for what players have done over the entire time the game has existed: 1) Most PvP wins. 2) Most Resources donated for bribery 3) Most MVPs 4) Most CPs earned...

I also would like to have a record of top 3 per faction per war cycle that future players that are in cycle 100 can go back and view. That way they will know that Ysosad earned the Usurper title twice (because I am just that conceited) and was simply the best player to ever play this game that never got #1 or #2...yay for consistency!  

The ppl who dont do any cp certainly dont need/want aether. My argument was that there are other ways but only CP to contribute to the winning process that are left behind in a purely CP based system, that sometimes quality CP matter more than quantity (capital takedown suicide/pvp >>> coop) etc.

I like the idea about a cp baseline, Rune probably intended that with the change already. (Just that 100k cp seemed a little off the board). I actually would like the aether table to have several CP baselines around 50, 250, 500k CP.

Tibr wrote:

Do you even think that any of the 0 cp veterans will get any aether by the end of the cycle? I dont, and they shouldnt.
And as for olympus, you cant have overread all the "whine" about olympus players are at disadvantage that is throughout the whole topic ..

I do like the idea of CPs only determining who gets Aether, but IF you are going to keep the Fame rankings, is there anyway to make it so that 0cp fall in after everyone who is active fighting for the round? Then we can see where we fall in with the active people, not the ones who built themselves up and then got bored, or tired of all the changes and left? I do not mean to bring more headaches to you, but just trying to think of something that actually makes people feel like hey maybe we do have a chance to get in front of all these people who no longer play, and the rewards will go to those who fight in BATTLE conquest, not those who are playing, or are just playing BUILDER conquest. I know it is adding a third table, but it would give you a "lifetime Fame" "active Fame" and "CP"

People who left Erevos to go to Olympus did give up evereything for a new start, and did agree to it, but they agreed to it under the grand assumption by all that they would not be thrust back in with Everos after that new start with no adjustment for spending more during the time divided, or other then a chance to respend the gems they may have bought no compensation for any of the building efforts they had done before they left. Until you figure out how to do this ANY ranking that contains city points will ALWAYS favor Erevos players.

In my time as an orc on Erevos going up through the rankings required weeks of grinding and building. You maybe went up 1-2 rankings for each building. The cps ranking was way more dynamic. You could have gone to sleep in position number 5 and the next morning you were 20. It was way more competitive and fast moving than slowly grinding up by fame. It was more fun and allowed noobs to overtake inactive veterans. While veterans were still mostly in top 10 there was a Noooooooooooob player who was in top 10. I'm sure he is now in 300 ranking or less. If he wants to spend a huge portion of his time fighting and getting to number 1 then he should be rewarded with number one position.

Tibr wrote:

The ppl who dont do any cp certainly dont need/want aether. My argument was that there are other ways but only CP to contribute to the winning process that are left behind in a purely CP based system, that sometimes quality CP matter more than quantity (capital takedown suicide/pvp >>> coop) etc.

I think that you are correct that CP only is not getting the whole picture, I don't favor throwing the peripherals out the window because they do matter. Lets just make our best effort to not reward someone with something that serves no purpose for them and, therefore, takes it away from someone that has shown that they probably would.

Defining what is a quality attack gets sticky...the merits of PvP to the Faction particularly so.

Tibr wrote:

I like the idea about a cp baseline, Rune probably intended that with the change already. (Just that 100k cp seemed a little off the board). I actually would like the aether table to have several CP baselines around 50, 250, 500k CP.

Yes, 45K is much more reasonable and attainable. I do like the idea of rewarding the high/extremely high output players. I get the draw of rewarding Aether, it would have to be very small as Aether should always be VERY difficult to attain. For that reason, I again prefer a vanity award (like a title or a unique banner or something else that makes the person "stand out") over one that impacts gameplay.

Initially, I disagreed with Tibr, but he has slightly changed his tune, and now I agree:

The best answer is to be able to sort by either Fame or Combat Points. Fame rankings clearly show how long somebody has been playing the game, and can reflect the "soft power" of resources for walls and upgrading hexes, etc. Combat Points show the "hard power" of fighting.

The only reason to care about rankings (besides ego) is for the Aether Rewards. And I think Aether Rewards should be based on Combat Points, because it is far more time-consuming to generate Combat Points than it is for a veteran player with a huge warehouse that automatically collects resources to simply donate those resources to build a wall, etc. While that is definitely a much-needed and respected part of the game, those that put in the greatest effort in the current cycle should get the reward for that cycle.

Just my two cents.

For all i can see there is currently a 45k cp threshold to get any aether at all. So veteran with maxed city or beginner, noone will get any aether unless they have generated 45k cp.

[This is about an estimate of 3months playtime from scratch for a casual player doing .. 10-15 battles a day]

This will automatically cut out any beginners and any passive veterans out of equation for aether in case of a short game cycle. But it was 100k CP before which would have meant that less than 100 ppl get aether at all.

Pyr wrote:

on thew other side a new player log into bc and he sees tons of cp and fame he think "ok i am new i will get into top 1 in some time"

and we got 3 options

option 1 cp ranking

he fight and get better and better rank he manage to get to active players and than captial falls everybody rank is rested and evrybody got 0 so he is motivated to play evry inactive aaccout with huge fame and maby huge cp is way down behind him becuse of he is active and do tons of cp

option 2 mixed ranking
he fight and get better and better rank he manage to get to active players and than captial falls everybody rank is rested but he need to go with all those inactive players with huge fame so he got slightly dismotivated fight less he goes lower in ranks dismotivate more and after some time stop playing

option 3 fame ranknig
he fight and get better and better rank he manage to get to active players and than captial falls everybody rank is rested but well its a fame ranking so nothing changes ateher are only for high plyes and if somone would manage to budulit and resarch all he will always be top 1 ang get achers becuse there could be no more fame than hi even if he is inactive is time there will be many plyers with max fame and you wiull have to make more bulidng and resrch lvl

thank you bring back cp ranking or maby cp+fame ranking 1:1 if you want to get all those inactives int top 1 on every reset

For now there is 25 vote on only CP rank
and 29 vote on Fame + CP rank.

If fame + cp rank win, i hope it will be a new poll. Cause there is 3 different option for Fame + cp rank So as much divided vote...

Naz_ wrote:

For now there is 25 vote on only CP rank
and 29 vote on Fame + CP rank.

If fame + cp rank win, i hope it will be a new poll. Cause there is 3 different option for Fame + cp rank So as much divided vote...

If there were a new vote just using the choices for Fame + CP/X, then [Fame + CP/1] would win such a vote.

Everyone that voted for that option initially (7) plus anyone that didn't want city score at all to begin with (26) would vote for this option for 33 votes versus no more than the 23 other voters (or 24 if you count the jackass that voted for city score only).

The options would have to be entirely different to expect a different result...either incorporating an additional measure, a multiplier for CP, and/or reducing the value of city score.

Tibr wrote:

For all i can see there is currently a 45k cp threshold to get any aether at all. So veteran with maxed city or beginner, noone will get any aether unless they have generated 45k cp.

[This is about an estimate of 3months playtime from scratch for a casual player doing .. 10-15 battles a day]

This will automatically cut out any beginners and any passive veterans out of equation for aether in case of a short game cycle. But it was 100k CP before which would have meant that less than 100 ppl get aether at all.

The current shop shows 45k Fame NOT 45k CP threashold So it cuts out beginners.
And Currently the top person not generating CPs has 34k Fame so it may cut out all people who quit, but possibly in the future someone who has a fully built town will reach that minimum, but by that time Hopefully they will be out of the count for extra Aether.

Hm oversight, it was 100k cp before, then it was changed to 45k .. should be cp, thanks for pointing it out, havent noticed.

Tibr wrote:

Hm oversight, it was 100k cp before, then it was changed to 45k .. should be cp, thanks for pointing it out, havent noticed.

Read the update notes

- Global Aether rewards req has been changed. From 100k CP, it has been reduced to 45k Fame.


Because you now need 5 cp to get 1 fame it is 45k fame, which if you try to get it all in CP is 225k CP If they don't change it to the all CP for aether, then hopefully they will at a minimum make a minimum level of CP required to get Aether and not a minimal level of Fame, then you wont have people that have built up getting aether awards just sitting in their towns not doing anything.

After reading the posts and looking at the votes I have made my decision.

First the facts:

1. The majority of the people are in favor of a ranking system which depends solely on CP. (26 out of 59 votes - 44%)

However...

2. If we add up the people who voted in favor of a mixed solution for the ranking system (CP + Fame) we will notice that the result is 54% (32 out of 59 votes)

3. In a Fame + CP solution, players who were on Erevos or veteran players in general will always have a clear advantage over new players in regards to the rank. I do not personally find it unfair, but I can understand the logic of people who are against this system.

4. A player's investment of hundreds of thousands of resources, effort and time should be reflected in the rankings. Fame is the value which shows the progress of a player.

5. Activity is everything in Battle Conquest. The more active you are, the more CP you generate for your Faction and the more you contribute to the war effort.

6. Currently, Fame is the req for the Aether rewards. This means that when a map is reset, a veteran player will always have an advantage over a new player.

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Having considered all the above I have decided the following:

1. Fame will indicate the City Score of a player. City Score = Building lvls and tech lvls (No CP bonus)

2. Both Fame and CP will be shown in the Global Rankings. A player will be able to choose Fame or CP to sort the Rankings. In other words, a player will be able to compare players by choosing either Fame or CP to sort the Rankings. CP will be default, as it indicates the activity of a player and his contribution to the war effort.

3. The requirement for the Aether Rewards will be strictly CP. The value has not been finalized yet, but we will make sure it is not a value which will work as a barrier to Aether Rewards. However, it is not going to be an easy task either...

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With the above solution we cover everyone:

i) The progress of players, new or veteran, is Fame. Rankings can be sorted by Fame. The player with the highest Fame (the highest lvl City) will be first.

ii) The activity of players, new or veteran, is of course CP. As above, Rankings will also be sorted by CP (player's choice). This will be the default when the Rankings open, but a player can change it at anytime he wishes.

iii) Aether rewards shall be given to the players who were actively helping in the warfare. Even though a veteran player may have a lvl 25 City, this will not affect directly the Aether rewards, as he will also have to be active to earn his share of Aether. However, his progress is also not neglected completely, as the higher his level - the higher his units - the higher battle difficulty he can choose - the higher the generated CP per battle and therefore the easier he can accumulate CP. To make a long story short, the progress of a player (city lvl, tech lvl) will NOT affect directly the Aether rewards he will have access to.

Kick in the balls for 54%, fine.

well we can give ather for city too

so ather rewars will be shown like this:

1 on cp rank
2 on cp rank
3on cp rank
4-10 cp rank
100k cp
11-50 cp rank
50k cp
51-100 cp rank
20k fame
101-200 cp rank

top higher value bottom lower value

Pyr wrote:

well we can give ather for city too

so ather rewars will be shown like this:

1 on cp rank
2 on cp rank
3on cp rank
4-10 cp rank
100k cp
11-50 cp rank
50k cp
51-100 cp rank
20k fame
101-200 cp rank

top higher value bottom lower value

No, because simply a high lvl player will always get Aether even with 0 CP.

Cp threshold for any aether payment at 45k and you have solved it all.

Tibr wrote:

Cp threshold for any aether payment at 45k and you have solved it all.

Actually, it will be a bit lower than that.

I think Rune made a good call here. For those who simply want recognition for their seniority, they will still top the fame list for everybody to see.

For those who want aether, they'll have to work for it like the rest of us each game cycle. Aether is won through battle!

like in this whole topic i still fully agree with Anduin

Steinhund wrote:

like in this whole topic i still fully agree with Anduin

Ditto, and as Rune says you build up your city you can get better armies, fight bigger battles and get cp faster.