really bad luck or bug

since last patch with presents 95% of my drops are common fragments the other 5% is uncommon frags. doing NMs mostly. i got quite decent +drop rate gear and aprox 2500 AP. i havent seen common frags for very long time and suddenly i only get those.
thank you in advance for your answer before i fall in apathy hole

Greetings dogi,

I can safely say that the presents drop mechanism is a totally different module and does not affect fragments drop and quality rates. Nothing has changed regarding fragment drops.

Xargos

thank you Xargos
second account on Olympus shoud not affect drop rates on Erevos, right?

No dogi, everything works autonomously.

I to am seeing a LOT more Common frags in my Nightmares and I am running 250%+ Drop rate. I did see an Epic this other day, but that was after 20+ battles and I usually see one every 10 battles or so.

Drop quality has changed after the implementation of insane and suicidal difficulties, so it is normal to see less quality fragment drops on nightmare.

Side Note: Drop Rates affect the probability of getting a fragment and not the dropped fragment quality itself.

Xargos wrote:

Drop quality has changed after the implementation of insane and suicidal difficulties, so it is normal to see less quality fragment drops on nightmare.

Side Note: Drop Rates affect the probability of getting a fragment and not the dropped fragment quality itself.

Whhhhhat? But Runeslayer previously said that it increases the quality of the fragment as well. If this is true than drop rate is pretty useless, especially on nightmare and higher difficulties.

Bobba wrote:

Xargos wrote:

Drop quality has changed after the implementation of insane and suicidal difficulties, so it is normal to see less quality fragment drops on nightmare.

Side Note: Drop Rates affect the probability of getting a fragment and not the dropped fragment quality itself.

Whhhhhat? But Runeslayer previously said that it increases the quality of the fragment as well. If this is true than drop rate is pretty useless, especially on nightmare and higher difficulties.

I NEVER mentioned that the Drop Rate affects the rarity of an item. Different battle DIFFICULTIES have increased rarity rate i.e. Nightmare difficulty has a better chance of BOTH a fragment to drop and a BETTER fragment in regards to rarity.

RuneSlayer wrote:

I NEVER mentioned that the Drop Rate affects the rarity of an item. Different battle DIFFICULTIES have increased rarity rate i.e. Nightmare difficulty has a better chance of BOTH a fragment to drop and a BETTER fragment in regards to rarity.

Hmm, i thought the same like Bobba.

9999 wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

I NEVER mentioned that the Drop Rate affects the rarity of an item. Different battle DIFFICULTIES have increased rarity rate i.e. Nightmare difficulty has a better chance of BOTH a fragment to drop and a BETTER fragment in regards to rarity.

Hmm, i thought the same like Bobba.

I don't see how what you posted indicates that the increased drop rate, due to items, affects the rarity of the drops as well.

It was said, that if you use 100% drop rate items, your chance getting an godlike fragment is doubled.
That is how i had understand it.

9999 wrote:

It was said, that if you use 100% drop rate items, your chance getting an godlike fragment is doubled.
That is how i had understand it.

Your chances of getting a drop are affected, not the rarity of the drop.

RuneSlayer wrote:

9999 wrote:

It was said, that if you use 100% drop rate items, your chance getting an godlike fragment is doubled.
That is how i had understand it.

Your chances of getting a drop are affected, not the rarity of the drop.

Going to put my opinion on how this works out there. It is only an opinion, I have no idea if it is even close to accurate.

Without +drop rate gear I still get drops at a pretty good rate. I recall seeing some people on Erevos stating they had +300% drop rate sets and I wonder if it even makes sense to have a set with that much +drop rate.

Just guessing here, but I'd say I get a drop somewhere along the lines of 1 out every 3 battles, maybe a smidgen more. That would mean that anything over +200% drop rate would be pointless, since I would be guaranteed to get a drop at +200%....but perhaps I'm off on the odds, I'll keep track of it going forward.

It should be noted that drop rate gear should lead to more godlikes at a nominal level (unless you cannot receive godlikes at that given difficulty level)...though no increase would be observed proportional to other drops.

Some overkill to follow.

If on average you get a drop in 1 out of every 3 fights without any drop rate gear, you can expect to get to a perfect 100% drop rate when using a +200% drop rate set. If you were getting 1 godlike per 100 battles at that specific difficulty level before using the +200% set, you can expect to get 3 godlikes per 100 battles (on average) when using your +200% drop rate gear. You would see the same sort of increase with epics, rares, etc., such that they are all more common, but will still drop in the same proportion to one another prior to using any +drop rate gear.

Edit: Also, in this example, adding more +drop rate gear would not increase your chances of getting better or more drops.

9999 wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

I NEVER mentioned that the Drop Rate affects the rarity of an item. Different battle DIFFICULTIES have increased rarity rate i.e. Nightmare difficulty has a better chance of BOTH a fragment to drop and a BETTER fragment in regards to rarity.

Hmm, i thought the same like Bobba.

This is exactly the post I was thinking of, thanks =)

if the chance of a godlike frag dropping doubles, doesn't that mean there's a higher chance for a higher rarity frag to drop?

Only due to the increase of the drop rate, and not as a result of a chance to obtain directly a better quality.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Only due to the increase of the drop rate, and not as a result of a chance to obtain directly a better quality.

Makes sense.

-----

Would it be possible to tell us the %age chance of any frag dropping at a given difficulty level...I assume it changes slightly as you increase difficulty, along with the chances of a higher rarity drop.

I ask because drops seem fairly common, so much so that certain players may be over-equipping their units with +drop percentage...that is to say they added +drop rate gear that puts their drop %age over 100%. This would provide no benefit, even work against them since they would, presumably, have used items with different benefits.¹

1: That is unless they could get a second drop with the percentage points above 100%, like PvP².
2: Though that would bring up the question of whether it would be possible to get a THIRD drop in PvP, with the right gearing.  

You guys really need to work on your technical communications skills. This is yet another botched communications issue that has directly effected how 100's of people play the game.

Instead of being 1 sentence vague, perhaps an extra couple of minutes on details would be appropriate.


Also, you should improve the game by implementing code for a 2nd Drop on NM/COOP/PVP and up. This 2nd drop would be rather low, but be effected by Drop Rate Gear. Perhaps the 2nd drop would be at half the normal rate of the 1st drop?

ysosad wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Only due to the increase of the drop rate, and not as a result of a chance to obtain directly a better quality.

Makes sense.

-----

Would it be possible to tell us the %age chance of any frag dropping at a given difficulty level...I assume it changes slightly as you increase difficulty, along with the chances of a higher rarity drop.

I ask because drops seem fairly common, so much so that certain players may be over-equipping their units with +drop percentage...that is to say they added +drop rate gear that puts their drop %age over 100%. This would provide no benefit, even work against them since they would, presumably, have used items with different benefits.¹

1: That is unless they could get a second drop with the percentage points above 100%, like PvP².
2: Though that would bring up the question of whether it would be possible to get a THIRD drop in PvP, with the right gearing.  

Going to bump my post...because I am just obsessive like like that (*stares at Rune and silently vows not to blink until he gets a response*). I blame Than0s, it really is his fault for making me remember this thread and my post.

subliminal message for Than0s only: come to the Dark Faction on Olympus....join Dark Inquisition.

There was/is a huge confusion about drop rate. Like Than0s said, plenty people were certain that dr% increases the rarity of dropped fragments.
Imho anything else just didnt make sense. Because ... nightmare has a guaranteed fragment drop, and any drop gear past that point would be absolutely useless. Currently thats just what it looks like.

BUT, i think we have an oversight. Many of you will remember the times we used to be getting 2 fragments per battle. It turned out to have been a glitch, whatever. I still remind you of the topic:

RuneSlayer wrote:

Fyrr wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

nathor wrote:

RuneSlayer wrote:

1. Nightmare never dropped 2 fragments. If it did, consider yourself lucky, because it was a glitch.

nope! it was doing it maybe 30% to 50% of the battles! it was not a "glitch" but a very common occurrence. it happened also in coop i think.

Then it was a very "common" glitch, which was never meant to be there.

Look at NM and coop popups with possible rewards... Both show the possibility to get 0-2 frags!.. And it used to work, I'd say in more than 50% battles. So it was INTENDED at some point. Give it back! We won't get rich getting one more common frag per battle.

Fyrr, it was like that 2 updates ago. Then it was changed to 1 for CO-OP and NM for different reasons.

1. You can do unlimited CO-OPs in a day.

2. We are adding two more difficulties in solo, Insane and Suicide which will have the drop chance of more than 1 fragments.

The tooltips will be corrected in the next update. We missed that.

I did not get two frags ever again, apart of pvp. I suggest to put that second frag drop back on the list and make it depend on drop rate, similar to what Than0s said. I would expect suicide to grant you two frags automatically just because its highend AI combat, but then ... as long drop rate makes any sense again, i am happy.

Tibr wrote:

Because ... nightmare has a guaranteed fragment drop, and any drop gear past that point would be absolutely useless. Currently thats just what it looks like.

Wrong...

ysosad wrote:

Going to bump my post...because I am just obsessive like like that (*stares at Rune and silently vows not to blink until he gets a response*). I blame Than0s, it really is his fault for making me remember this thread and my post.

Drop Rates per difficulty. These are base rates without any items' modifiers.

Easy: No drop

Normal: 45%

Hard: 50%

Nightmare: 52%

Insane: 56%

Suicide: 60%

Rarity chances and rewards (resources) are also different and significantly different for insane and suicide.

THAN0S wrote:

You guys really need to work on your technical communications skills. This is yet another botched communications issue that has directly effected how 100's of people play the game.

Instead of being 1 sentence vague, perhaps an extra couple of minutes on details would be appropriate.


Also, you should improve the game by implementing code for a 2nd Drop on NM/COOP/PVP and up. This 2nd drop would be rather low, but be effected by Drop Rate Gear. Perhaps the 2nd drop would be at half the normal rate of the 1st drop?

Let's analyze the words "Drop" and "Rate" together.

Drop: When something is dropped. When used in online games it refers to an item that a mob "drops" when it is killed.

Rate: A measure of the frequency of occurrence of a given event, such as a "Drop" as explained above.

So, a Drop Rate, in our case and by using the explanation above, would actually refer to the frequency of occurrence of finding a fragment in battle.

How exactly would a DROP RATE affect the RARITY of a DROP and how can that be CONFUSING?

To your recommendations.

Getting a 2nd fragment in CO-OP is out of the question, considering the fact that the player doesn't need to use any command points for a CO-OP.

Players in PvP have already a chance for a 2nd fragment.

In solo, Insane and Suicide have a lot higher chances for a higher rarity fragment than in other difficulties already. The Drop Rate bonuses given by items are already added to the final Drop Rate in all difficulties AND in the chance of receiving a 2nd fragment in PvP. However, we could also introduce the chance of acquiring a 2nd fragment in Insane and Suicide.

Now i have to poke deeper. And explain what i believe is laymen expectation.

The common (mis)conception is that there is a certain % to get a godlike fragment, for example 0.2% on nightmare.
If i would be using 100% drop rate on items i would get 0.4% chance to get a godlike on nm.
As far as i understand it, this proportion is correct untill the player reaches the 100% chance to get a drop on certain difficulty. Any drop rate % above that point are not used.

Based on your explanation we have 52% chance to get any drop on nm.

How much drop rate % on my items do i need to get a guaranteed drop, any drop? Is it
A) 93% (as 52x1.93=100.36) or
B) 48% (as 52+48=100)
C) something different

Unless the correct answer is C, the need for drop rate items goes down with the difficulty. But to master the higher difficulty you use epics and godlikes that normally have some secondary stat like xp/drop/dura - simply by using any random higher rarity items you will cover the required % for that one guaranteed drop without even trying - expectedly after only 67% on suicide.

That second fragment drop on insane and suicide would make the surplus of drop rate  useful instead of making the player think he is wasting AP. Alternatively you could use that surplus to improve the chances for higher rarity, which is sort of what ppl thought was happening all the time   

Ok, to make things a bit clearer:

When deciding about the fragment drop there are two separate rolls.

a. The first roll determines if a fragment will be awarded.
b. The second roll determines the fragment's quality.

- Drop Rate % bonuses only affect the first roll and not the roll that determines quality.
- Each quality has it's own fixed percentage depending on the difficulty and it is not affected by Drop Rate % bonuses.

Drop Rate example:
Let's suppose that a fragment has a 30% drop chance.
- A player that has 100% Drop Rate bonus would then have 60% chance to get a fragment.
- Another player that has 200% Drop Rate bonus would then have 90% chance.

Maybe you can help me with a more radical approach.

A player is playing on suicide difficulty, and has with no gear a base drop chance of 60% to get a fragment drop as reward.
This player takes gear that provides a total of 100% drop bonus. Now he will definitely get some fragment as reward, whether it is uncommon or godlike does not depend on his gear.

Now this player takes gear that provides a total of 200% drop bonus, then 300% or 400%.

There is NO difference to the outcome anymore, whether he had 100 or 400 % drop rate on his items. Is this correct?

I see what your point is.

We've decided to add one more rule:
If the final drop chance is over 100%, there will be an additional roll for another fragment.
The drop chance of the second fragment will be [total drop chance - 100%] and will cap to 50%.

Taking the above into consideration, up to a total of 150% final drop chance will be handled. The rest will be ignored.

Example:
If a player enters a suicidal battle (60% initial fragment drop chance) with 200% Drop Rate bonus, his final drop chance would get to 60 x 3 = 180%.
According to the new rules, that player would get a standard fragment and would get a second roll with 180 - 100 = 80% -> 50%(capped) chance.

Edit: PvP battles will NEVER drop a third fragment.

Ok, that would mean:

for insane: max counted drop rate bonus from gear is 168% on items. (150/56 = 2.68)
for suicide: max counted drop rate bonus from gear is 150% on items. (150/60 = 2.5)

If a player takes more than 168% drop gear on insane and more than 150% drop gear on suicide it will not be taken into the calculation.

Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. I hope you also see why we, players, were puzzled about the drop rate bonus. Lets see how it works out.

I am tempted to keep poking you about influence factors .. level or AI units, number of units taken to battle, mercs/no mercs. Then we could eventually make a good topic about drop rate in the guides and tutorials section and be done with chewing that issue over and over again