undead over-nerfed perhaps

With the new patch, undead lose HP for every failed morale check. Perhaps it has been overlooked that, where other races run away after a failed check to recuperate a bit, the undead stay in battle and wil fail check after check, thus leading to a very rapid unit death. Whereas before the patch NM's were doable when fighting naked, now i need to do solos extremely conservative in order to prevent unit deaths. Of course, there is the manual flee, but even using that option, casualties often mount that quickly that fleeing in time won't work.

When a unit flees, most of the times it will either be totally destroyed or lose a lot of HPs. In the case of the Undead, they lose 1 -2 HP, ONLY IF they lose a Morale check.

Considering the damage inflicted on a non Undead fleeing unit and comparing it with the damage inflicted on an Undead unit because of 1 failed Morale check (for one round) and the fact that more damage can only be affected IF they fail another Morale check, we believe it is not that bad and improves the balance between races.

Still easily defeated by undead in pvp, tyvm Claudandus.

but still.. before the patch getting completely wiped out was a very rare occurence. Now, even with ultra-conservative tactics, 1 in 4 has become the norm for undead. Surely they weren't that overpowered, compared to the other races ?

For the first time, I agree with Klaas. You pop in Unbreakable to equalize it then suddenly add this new thing. My PvPs are waay harder now.

Savvage wrote:

For the first time, I agree with Klaas. You pop in Unbreakable to equalize it then suddenly add this new thing. My PvPs are waay harder now.

Before they were too easy.
Welcome to 'fairness'. Enjoy your stay.

So the Lights love it. Overnerfed. There will always be arguments if the factions are equal, arguments of the people trying to have better races!

It was quite clear that Undead were overpowered from a PvP and PvE perspective.

Read the title.

klaas wrote:

Whereas before the patch NM's were doable when fighting naked, now i need to do solos extremely conservative in order to prevent unit deaths.

klaas wrote:

but still.. before the patch getting completely wiped out was a very rare occurence. Now, even with ultra-conservative tactics, 1 in 4 has become the norm for undead. Surely they weren't that overpowered, compared to the other races ?

There was a much more significant change that affected all races regarding nightmare at the same time as the small nerf to skeletons.

Thus, the "1 in 4 has become the norm" [guessing here] is probably at least 80% attributable to the change in nightmare, and less than 20% to the small nerf to the undead.

Savvage wrote:

Read the title.

It was not an over-nerf, the change made undead balanced with other races mechanics. Now you have to pay attention to tactics and to the morale of your units just like the rest of us.

Undead was easily the toughest race to fight, now it is more even(low AP still makes you annoying)

Joyce wrote:

klaas wrote:

Whereas before the patch NM's were doable when fighting naked, now i need to do solos extremely conservative in order to prevent unit deaths.

klaas wrote:

but still.. before the patch getting completely wiped out was a very rare occurence. Now, even with ultra-conservative tactics, 1 in 4 has become the norm for undead. Surely they weren't that overpowered, compared to the other races ?

There was a much more significant change that affected all races regarding nightmare at the same time as the small nerf to skeletons.

Thus, the "1 in 4 has become the norm" [guessing here] is probably at least 80% attributable to the change in nightmare, and less than 20% to the small nerf to the undead.

Not quite. I've asked around in dark faction. Players with other races describe the new NM as "somewhat more difficult" whereas skellies are more at "what the hell ?  "
I just find it so curious that it has been decided that, in order to lessen their advantage, being unbreakable, their weakness ,lower HP, has been increased. It feels like not the most logical course to take.

Please explain to me how Undead have lower HP?

In fact their Heavies have 10 more HP (5 more troops) than any other Heavy, at the expense of only 5 less armour. Their endurance is on par. Their reaction is equal to the other fastest races.

I'm undead and I dont think we got over-nerfed. The nerf is noticeable, when you are facing enemies that dont allow you to regain morale as much as needed, but its still reasonable. If you dont get flanked, reared or overpowered the nerf should have no affect at all.

I may be wrong, but i somehow remember kuba said right after the patch, he won a nm with naked units. He is undead .. so, thats a trick for any race to struggle.

Tibr wrote:

I may be wrong, but i somehow remember kuba said right after the patch, he won a nm with naked units. He is undead .. so, thats a trick for any race to struggle.

I want to hear him saying that again...

Did you make it harder?

Because I have been having a harder time of things today. >_>

No, I was referring to the Undead.

No changes were made to the difficulties. I am personally quite satisfied with how the new difficulties are and when we add Insane and Suicide I believe we will be ...complete.

Cool

The morale disfunction for undead is not balanced. I have actually wiped on hard because enemy forces can "flee" through your entire army, return to battle and flank you, decimating any undead troops in the process, with little effort. I have also had troops "flanked" when an opposing force merely joins an existing battle from the front. If you think the game matrix is balanced you are mistaken.

And, anyone who doesn't have undead as their race has no basis for comment in this post. How could you observe the difference between pre and post update unless you experience it first hand?

The update does not preserve existing game play. It makes you more reliant on things that take time and money to repair, replace, or produce (which was by design). I cannot speak for the other types of armies, but undead did not get a "minor nerf." It is impactful to all our game-play.

I once again must take a stand against my fellow undead corades and state that i havent experienced major troubles due to the latest nerf of undead. Watch your morale, dont get flanked, dont get overpowered and you will be fine. I would like to inquire with what setup the undeads that are struggling with the new patch go into battle?

RuneSlayer wrote:

Tibr wrote:

I may be wrong, but i somehow remember kuba said right after the patch, he won a nm with naked units. He is undead .. so, thats a trick for any race to struggle.

I want to hear him saying that again...

I did naked NM after patch with changed difficulty and nerfing undead. I won but only 4 or 5 soldiers survived from 187 (4LI 3HI 3CAV) propably i was lucky that i have not met dwarves. Now even with my rares i can lose 95% of my army in NM mode.

About nerfing undead its hard to say something. It has no visible effect in pve but at pvp single UD unit can tank for much less time. I have not met dark side durnig GW (coop and solo) anymore so i cannot say how undead are fighting (i hope this is bug and soon i will be able to meet 6 races on battlefield again).
PVP/PVE matches should be harder for UD players and new tactics will be needed.

Claudandus wrote:

I once again must take a stand against my fellow undead corades and state that i havent experienced major troubles due to the latest nerf of undead. Watch your morale, dont get flanked, dont get overpowered and you will be fine. I would like to inquire with what setup the undeads that are struggling with the new patch go into battle?

It is impossible to "not get flanked" when the enemy force can flee briefly and then return at your flank.  The suggestion that flanking is the issue is so puerile that I don't even know how to defend it.

Then how come that i dont get flanked by fleeing and recharging enemy unit? They almost always flee in the direction where they came from. And if they dont they are almost dead and left with no morale when they finally emerge at the rear end of my army.
I very rarely get flanked or reared, except in PVP when a Player brings more units to the battle. And since I've been able to accomplish that without too much concentration and effort, the counsil you've got may be stating the obvious, but thats my experience.
So I'm asking you again whats your army compostion like, what is your strategic approach.

Claudandus wrote:

Then how come that i dont get flanked by fleeing and recharging enemy unit? They almost always flee in the direction where they came from. And if they dont they are almost dead and left with no morale when they finally emerge at the rear end of my army.
I very rarely get flanked or reared, except in PVP when a Player brings more units to the battle. And since I've been able to accomplish that without too much concentration and effort, the counsil you've got may be stating the obvious, but thats my experience.
So I'm asking you again whats your army compostion like, what is your strategic approach.

I got flanked once during a PvE and under 7 seconds I got a minus 7 HP from the new "Undead"