WHHHAAAAAAHHH! (Light side crying might help)

Since all the darks complained about how tough elves were and got us reduced to average maybe y'all can listen to us complain First off- undead are almost impossible to beat in PvP, need mad morale to stand a chance (they are best in game currently). 2nd- why the hell does dark's artillery get to shoot over stuff and light's can't? Seriously? 3rd- Dunno, i don't study all the stats as some do but here are some legit complaints ^

I would rather prefer the dark legion doom cannon to have a needed LOS but with more damage output.
Elves are not average, they were too much effective in both ranged and melee, this forced many players to roll elves for their effectiveness rather than a free choice...they are good now, you have plenty of tools to fight and win, it's up to you how to play with your race...
Developers did huge simulations before changing caps and stats and the current changes were almost perfectly balanced, why do you want to change them if they works very well in 1 vs 1 battles?

No we don't they suck all they have are archers but hey keep geting debuffed (all archers) we have artillery but ours can not shoot over buildings like all he dark fraction can our cavs are one of the worst In the game same as our heavies and lia the only thing that we really have now are light infinity but the only thing that makes them good also got debuffed (the percentage of when the ability happens is lower)

Oh they have a charge ability but only 2 other classes do not

Williumwall wrote:

No we don't they suck all they have are archers but hey keep geting debuffed (all archers) we have artillery but ours can not shoot over buildings like all he dark fraction can our cavs are one of the worst In the game same as our heavies and lia the only thing that we really have now are light infinity but the only thing that makes them good also got debuffed (the percentage of when the ability happens is lower)

It sounds like you are forgetting all about reaction... elf LIA and HI both have excellent reaction, making them quite good (at least with good gear) because they get more hits in. Also, according to Rune Elf HI won simulations about 1% more often than other races (although this is probably assuming max stats). Assuming equal gear, I doubt your HI is bad at all...As for elf cav I don't know, but I have been eaten by them before (but this was before stat caps changed). And I don't remember the elf LI's ability ever being nerfed...

That all said... I agree undead are probably overpowered a bit although I've never PvP'ed them (seeing as I'm dark) and I don't know the status of the shiver fix (has it been implemented yet?). It would be best to wait for shiver fix and then decide if undead needs further debuffing, or else undead could be unintentionally made too weak. Also, I haven't got to use artillery yet so I can't say whether they are OP, but based on what I can guess dark faction artillery do sound OP in that they can cancel out light artillery by firing over things at them and can also force the enemy to engage.

ELf heavies actually are units of swordmasters rather than regular heavies, they have the advantage to have 0,5-1% more victory chance against other heavies with all stats capped, you can't say elves are not good, you can say they are almost perfectly balanced now even with that tiny advantage that they should not have

Not true dl beat very race with heavies

Also I bace everything around bace stats because only a gl player or a player with epics can reach the cap

But I see your point

Souless wrote:

I would rather prefer the dark legion doom cannon to have a needed LOS but with more damage output.
Elves are not average, they were too much effective in both ranged and melee, this forced many players to roll elves for their effectiveness rather than a free choice...they are good now, you have plenty of tools to fight and win, it's up to you how to play with your race...
Developers did huge simulations before changing caps and stats and the current changes were almost perfectly balanced, why do you want to change them if they works very well in 1 vs 1 battles?

TLDR: This is entirely false... especially the forcing players to use them bit; it just so happens that Elves are very popular choices for fantasy RPGs, no matter the game... FURTHERMORE, our strengths are very few and far between indeed, and the devs' research simply isn't squaring with the results of ALL Elven players PVP experiences...

This is untrue BECAUSE... (and I know it sounds odd to argue against the dev's HUGE PILES of information) Elves simply cannot win fights. Maybe it's cause the Undead still don't shiver (this Monday? tomorrow/today sometime? hopefully?); Maybe it's cause the Elves have some hidden glitch; maybe it's WHO KNOWS WHY!!!! but none of us elves can win PVPs. I've PVPed with low gear high troops, PVPed with high gear low troops, PVPed with only melee, PVPed with melee/archer combos, PVPed with as many HI as I can bring, PVPed with no HI. AND I've PVPed against all of the above. PVPed archer vs. archer (against ORCS!)

The only PVP that I've been able to win since the stat changes was when the enemy brought a single heavy, and 4 archers (undead archers? ungeared? with ony 1 melee to cover them? what was he thinking!) and I had only LI/LIA. Yea, that was a massacre; not only did he bring a REALLY bad combo to PVP, he also didn't use his archers well. But the truth is, Elves just don't win.

The devs say "use your unit's advantage" but the only advantage we *might* have for melee is an "at the beginning of engagement cast fear" which is nearly impossible to do with pulling back and reengaging, given how glitchy/how often you have to click 10 times to actually get the intended action the controls are, combined with enemy troops not standing still waiting for us to reengage... they're advancing, killing us as we pull back. HI CANNOT engage again and again. CAV can, however CAV is, well, strictly for high level players. I've got 4 upgrades and two tech researches to complete, all of which will require vast amounts of resources, before I can use CAV, and I'm at over 5k fame!?! (my fault, I'm geared towards resources, not military)

And our archers... don't even get me started in on the archer business; every AP worth of archers is an AP point wasted in PVP, no matter what others say. *unless* there's an open plane that the enemy can be FORCED to allow you to take 2-3 shots at each of their units in order to engage you... Yes, archer fire can prove effective at reducing the already low moral of dark forces, no, it doesn't work unless archers can actually kill units, which right now, they really can't do. at level 6-7 with archers, using GL weapons with +missile, my archers cannot take out geared LI, much less even damage geared HI. That leaves them as STRICTLY effective against LIA, which is rarely even seen in PVP.

The Devs say that our HI can beat any darkie HI more often than not, at starting stats or cap stats (Runeslayer actually said EXACTLY that) But that is not the experience I've had. Yes, I know that gear/levels are at play, but I bring all the gear (epic and GL) that I have to PVPs... and I'm often at higher levels than my opponents; my HI still lose against enemy HI, even when I hit the same HI with 2 of my own. heck, I've had my HI break and run against a single LI time after time in PVP.

HI is supposed to be able to defeat CAV in battle, however I've had AI controlled ungeared CAV and player controlled geared CAV LITERALLY tank my HIs more times than I would like to admit.

Is all of this saying that the game has something against elves? Perhaps not; I'm abnormally unlucky, whether it be with random-number generators on a computer game, or with dice games at home, or with cards. However, I feel like the evidence is mounting, that Elves simply cannot fight against the darkies as we are currently. And this, of course is rather sad, given that according to all the high fantasy I've ever read, elves are infinitely superior in any way against evil creatures, but typically even more infinitely outnumbered. O.o

Lastly, light-side/dark-side LOS vs non-LOS arti is an outrageous advantage, which admittedly doesn't really make much difference in PVP, since most players cannot use arti... but it's still outrageous.

I forgot to mention one thing which is good, which we have...
our LI's ability, to NOT take damage, (however it works... I'm not quite sure) from being hit... is really good. It's ALSO, however, completely random about when and or if it is going to activate; thus I might or might not get it in a fight. If I do, then GOOD, that LI is going to tank the enemy's LI for a LONG time... at least till it runs out. If I don't get that ability to activate, through nothing but bad luck, my LI retreats. EVERY time. So do I feel like my races potentially strong LI is to be considered an advantage, given that I have absolutely no control over it's strongest point? not really...

Real I agree with you  I have face about 20-40 pvp's and every single one I loose the only ones I won  was before dl had that buff and after that I loost every one -_-  (only won one against fyrr by luck)but mostly to skeletons who need a  ap rises  or less units in a group. Us elves got debuffed because people loved us not because we were good.

LOL I based my comment on devs simulations and you think I didn't say the truth...well, it sounds a little bit arrogant to hear to me...

Realf Lantow wrote:

Souless wrote:

I would rather prefer the dark legion doom cannon to have a needed LOS but with more damage output.
Elves are not average, they were too much effective in both ranged and melee, this forced many players to roll elves for their effectiveness rather than a free choice...they are good now, you have plenty of tools to fight and win, it's up to you how to play with your race...
Developers did huge simulations before changing caps and stats and the current changes were almost perfectly balanced, why do you want to change them if they works very well in 1 vs 1 battles?

TLDR: This is entirely false... especially the forcing players to use them bit; it just so happens that Elves are very popular choices for fantasy RPGs, no matter the game... FURTHERMORE, our strengths are very few and far between indeed, and the devs' research simply isn't squaring with the results of ALL Elven players PVP experiences...

This is untrue BECAUSE... (and I know it sounds odd to argue against the dev's HUGE PILES of information) Elves simply cannot win fights.  Maybe it's cause the Undead still don't shiver (this Monday? tomorrow/today sometime? hopefully?); Maybe it's cause the Elves have some hidden glitch; maybe it's WHO KNOWS WHY!!!! but none of us elves can win PVPs. I've PVPed with low gear high troops, PVPed with high gear low troops, PVPed with only melee, PVPed with melee/archer combos, PVPed with as many HI as I can bring, PVPed with no HI.  AND I've PVPed against all of the above. PVPed archer vs. archer (against ORCS!)

The only PVP that I've been able to win since the stat changes was when the enemy brought a single heavy, and 4 archers (undead archers? ungeared? with ony 1 melee to cover them? what was he thinking!) and I had only LI/LIA.  Yea, that was a massacre; not only did he bring a REALLY bad combo to PVP, he also didn't use his archers well.  But the truth is, Elves just don't win.  

The devs say "use your unit's advantage" but the only advantage we *might* have for melee is an "at the beginning of engagement cast fear" which is nearly impossible to do with pulling back and reengaging, given how glitchy/how often you have to click 10 times to actually get the intended action the controls are, combined with enemy troops not standing still waiting for us to reengage... they're advancing, killing us as we pull back. HI CANNOT engage again and again. CAV can, however CAV is, well, strictly for high level players. I've got 4 upgrades and two tech researches to complete, all of which will require vast amounts of resources, before I can use CAV, and I'm at over 5k fame!?! (my fault, I'm geared towards resources, not military)

And our archers... don't even get me started in on the archer business; every AP worth of archers is an AP point wasted in PVP, no matter what others say. *unless* there's an open plane that the enemy can be FORCED to allow you to take 2-3 shots at each of their units in order to engage you... Yes, archer fire can prove effective at reducing the already low moral of dark forces, no, it doesn't work unless archers can actually kill units, which right now, they really can't do.  at level 6-7 with archers, using GL weapons with +missile, my archers cannot take out geared LI, much less even damage geared HI. That leaves them as STRICTLY effective against LIA, which is rarely even seen in PVP.

The Devs say that our HI can beat any darkie HI more often than not, at starting stats or cap stats (Runeslayer actually said EXACTLY that) But that is not the experience I've had.  Yes, I know that gear/levels are at play, but I bring all the gear (epic and GL) that I have to PVPs... and I'm often at higher levels than my opponents; my HI still lose against enemy HI, even when I hit the same HI with 2 of my own.  heck, I've had my HI break and run against a single LI time after time in PVP.  

HI is supposed to be able to defeat CAV in battle, however I've had AI controlled ungeared CAV and player controlled geared CAV LITERALLY tank my HIs more times than I would like to admit.  

Is all of this saying that the game has something against elves? Perhaps not; I'm abnormally unlucky, whether it be with random-number generators on a computer game, or with dice games at home, or with cards.  However, I feel like the evidence is mounting, that Elves simply cannot fight against the darkies as we are currently.  And this, of course is rather sad, given that according to all the high fantasy I've ever read, elves are infinitely superior in any way against evil creatures, but typically even more infinitely outnumbered. O.o

Lastly, light-side/dark-side LOS vs non-LOS arti is an outrageous advantage, which admittedly doesn't really make much difference in PVP, since most players cannot use arti... but it's still outrageous.

Well your archer battle against Legolas699 was not that unfair he trained those archers up and got good gear for them. That being said I still don't know how he beat an elf with archers. Elf archers are actually really strong if used well, I have gotten like 6 LI taken out by one shot of archers which really made me mad. Your HI has good abilities I wish orc HI had a different ability. I think Real you just need to find a strategy for yourself with elves.

Well, coop is no problem, not even solo NMs, but in PvP elves get stomped(Unless of course ya have a bunch o killer GL gear);even in naked 3v3 matches LIvLI (which ya can't use much strategy in). What to say to that? And don't list a long list o crud that I wont read about sims. Keep it simple...

Stinkfinger wrote:

Well, coop is no problem, not even solo NMs, but in PvP elves get stomped(Unless of course ya have a bunch o killer GL gear);even in naked 3v3 matches LIvLI (which ya can't use much strategy in). What to say to that? And don't list a long list o crud that I wont read about sims. Keep it simple...

My answer is...L2P, learn some strategies for your elves that works

Fuel hate; good call Souless.

As the elves seem to be saying, it is a pain in the ass to win at pvp these days.

Sure, maybe we're just a giant race of noobs. That's the only logical answer.

The only pvp that I win is when I have 3 archers and they have 3 archers or they are orcs because orcs suck (other then scaren) and unlike Skelton who rape me because when I can bring 3 groups they can bring 3 groups plus a hero and like 4 commons in a Lowe 3vs3 unit battle tell me how that's fare?