Dark Legion - Bad AP Cost and Glass Units

Posts : 109 Join date : 2013-06-04

According on base stats
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArV4Zx5QVPN0dGVGWEYzTlhaWmtKUDl6VUxvcGJjemc&gid=1

We re expecting changes on DL stats but on last update only AP insanely increased.

We all know the late issue about DL Heavy infantry and Cavalary always gettin owned by other races same units or ranged units because their health, even though their stats higher than others.

I tested it with Dakota earlier
mine 260 AP, his 252 AP | both of us didnt wear any equipments

result
DL totally lost

First mine flee
http://prntscr.com/1etf5m
and after Dakota's battled my unit again, 1 hit KO.

http://prntscr.com/1etfka

according on Dakota's barrack healing screenshot, he lost only 1 HP

From my point, I don't care dev decrease DL's HI/Cav stats, but please increase their health or unit population.

PS: Sorry for bad english

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Edit
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Dev said DL's units going to get major changes tomorrow.

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Trying to compare one unit to another to find out whether they are perfectly balanced or not is wrong, when they are not identical in the first place. Take a tomato and a raw potato of the same size and crush them together. Which of the two do you think will be smashed? The tomato of course....Which of the two can be eaten raw though...? Definitely not the potato..

What I am trying to say is that each entity has its own specs and usage. In our case, trying to find 100% balance between all units among the races, when each of them has different stats and different special abilities is simply a quest with no hope of success.

In order to prevent a misunderstanding, I will rush to say that each unit has stats that will give an almost 50 - 50 chance to beat the same unit of all the other races at level 1. This is something that has been determined after we have conducted at least 10.000 engagements for each pairing in a simulation that we have.

Having said all the above, I find your example of this random engagement (Elf Cav Vs DL Cav) not 100% right. You cannot determine whether a system is balanced or not by just one test. Also, you need to take into consideration the fact that each unit has different special abilities, different stats and probably some match ups are not in favor of the attacker/defender. For example, I would never go head to head with a Cav unit which has Impact Damage, and especially at lvl 10 (+60 STR and 3d4 automatic hits)......

This is not a game where you just unlock units and each unit is more powerful than the other... You need to use your units in such a way so as to utilize their advantages and prevent your opponent from exploiting their disadvantages.

Again, as I mentioned in BC Chat, DL Cav needs some "love"... Although its stats are quite high, the fact that the whole unit has 8 HPs, it means that it is vulnerable to missile (9 attacks per round) and it's very "eager" to flee... This will be changed...

To make a long story short...

Tomorrow there will be yet another update:

1) DL Cav will receive some love in terms of HPs and their AP will be reduced with some fine tweaking in their stats
2) DL HI AP will be reduced with some fine tweaking in their stats as well
3) Stats caps will again be changed, as the majority of the community didn't seem to like em. Instead, they will return to their older values and some will even be increased.

Posts : 282 Join date : 2013-06-04

To balance things there is no need to transform everything in 1 potato, strategy games are known to be rich of variety and it's variety among factions and races that increase synergy and strategy, some races can be better in ranged combat others can be better at tanking, others can be better at doing damage, there is an enormous variety but things can be still balanced pretty well...glass cannons are a wrong example of balance...

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Souless wrote:: To balance things there is no need to transform everything in 1 potato, strategy games are known to be rich of variety and it's variety among factions and races that increase synergy and strategy, some races can be better in ranged combat others can be better at tanking, others can be better at doing damage, there is an enormous variety but things can be still balanced pretty well...glass cannons are a wrong example of balance...

Exactly our point...

Posts : 282 Join date : 2013-06-04

Well, Runeslayer...you lowered too much the cap because now players are sad that they have all their stats capped in full godlikes, your main mistake was giving to godlike items too much stats, in my opinion if you imagined the game at the beginning with just common, uncommon, rare and epic items it would have been much better and less problematic to apply some caps, now the problem is huge because of the huge numbers of stats on godlikes -.-

If you have any intentions to keep variety and to change DL stats avoiding "glassification" and keeping DL melee oriented like their Dwarf counterparts pls don't forget to give to HI/cav a bit higher cap proportionally to their bit higher base stats, they are slower, slower attack speed, lesser number units, they deserve a bit more stats and a bit higher caps, don't you think?

With a bit higher caps the AP cost of units will also be higher with all the items equipped and the base AP cost will make the total AP cost even higher, so there is no real need to rise the base AP cost so much like you did today...it all adds up

Posts : 3124 Join date : 2012-11-13

Souless wrote:: Well, Runeslayer...you lowered too much the cap because now players are sad that they have all their stats capped in full godlikes, your main mistake was giving to godlike items too much stats, in my opinion if you imagined the game at the beginning with just common, uncommon, rare and epic items it would have been much better and less problematic to apply some caps, now the problem is huge because of the huge numbers of stats on godlikes -.-

If you have any intentions to keep variety and to change DL stats avoiding "glassification" and keeping DL melee oriented like their Dwarf counterparts pls don't forget to give to HI/cav a bit higher cap proportionally to their bit higher base stats, they are slower, lesser reaction, lesser number units, they deserve a bit more stats and a bit higher caps, don't you think?

With a bit higher caps the AP cost of units will also be higher with all the items equipped and the base AP cost will make the total AP cost even higher, so there is no real need to rise the base AP cost so much like you did today...it all adds up

Actually Souless, the caps haven't been lowered too much, as you mentioned. The biggest differences were noticed only by the Undead, which had 55 Str and Endurance..which makes sense, considering they are Undead..

However, in order not to begin a riot, I decided that it is too big of a change to be made in the middle of the game, so tomorrow the old values will return and some will even be raised.

The initial game design hasn't changed, we are only making modifications on it...We are not trying to make a new game...

As I mentioned during the chat, when I was online, DL HI and Cav will change...Some of their stats will be reduced but they will gain HPs in return. With the new stats, they will still be quite powerful, which is why their AP will be the highest in the game, considering that they also have the highest stats caps as well...