Arillery & research

Posts : 190 Join date : 2013-07-04

Already naked artillery seem to be the same as a lvl 10 one, even with all the +3 stats, whereas only missle and strength are useful one cause a unit acually reachs arti/ is able to hit it, its gone, so valuable ap is put to waste from lvls,

but also research is a big factor that adds usless ap and this is the real deal, I dont want to see them on this unit, already we lost our valuable melee on lia (0 armor from research) which was really useful esp when paired up with an artifact.

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

Str stat on arti has no effect in ranged combat. This is something i remember from talking to Dakota who once asked Rune about it.

The only stats for artillery that matter are: missile and endurance, hence those are the only stats artillery can roll.

Posts : 74 Join date : 2014-01-01 Location : France

If that affects melee battle yes, i'm tired to see 2 troops of cavs dying against one artillery...

(That happens in pvp though, so i don't know if AI has bonus from that...)

Subject: Re: Arillery & research Fri May 09, 2014 6:06 am

I would like more is weapon research give missile instant of melee to ranged and arty units I think I have suggested this varius times

Posts : 74 Join date : 2014-01-01 Location : France

Ulises21 wrote:: I would like more is weapon research give missile instant of melee to ranged and arty units I think I have suggested this varius times

I disagree, missile cap is really easy to cap on arty units...

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

What is the missile cap on arti? And how do you really manage to get there at all Oo

You start with 40, assuming you would roll only missile that would be 100.

Where is the cap???

The Unyielding Posts : 802 Join date : 2013-05-31

Tibr wrote:: What is the missile cap on arti? And how do you really manage to get there at all

Humans need 30 pts to cap (cap at 70).
Elves need at least 35?
Darks (DL, skellies) need 20 (cap 60).

So it's 7 levels of missile to cap in some cases...

Proof for DL:
Arillery & research Z32ZnEY

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

Now that is truly interesting. I have a 73 bolt.

(i must add, ironically its almost always not the bolt who got the most kills/xp when i was running 3 of them)

Posts : 782 Join date : 2013-07-19

I voted melee only, because armor is important to surviving ranged attacks (I think...). HOWEVER, I think the overall AP of artillery should not be reduced. Already they are quite cheap for the level of mayhem they can cause (at least, light artillery is). I'd prefer them to get a small boost in AP (10-25 depending on what researches won't affect them) if they are going to have less AP due to less melee/armor research. Otherwise they may be a bit too efficient at killing for their cost, in pvp in particular.

The Unyielding Posts : 802 Join date : 2013-05-31

Bobba wrote:: I voted melee only, because armor is important to surviving ranged attacks (I think...). HOWEVER, I think the overall AP of artillery should not be reduced. Already they are quite cheap for the level of mayhem they can cause (at least, light artillery is). I'd prefer them to get a small boost in AP (10-25 depending on what researches won't affect them) if they are going to have less AP due to less melee/armor research. Otherwise they may be a bit too efficient at killing for their cost, in pvp in particular.

yeah.. and dark artillery would become even less effective... Raise their AP too, why not Suspect

Why is having melee/armor tech such an issue in the first place?

Posts : 782 Join date : 2013-07-19

Fyrr wrote:: yeah.. and dark artillery would become even less effective... Raise their AP too, why not

dark artillery being underpowered really needs to be dealt with as a separate issue from techs.

Also, techs on artillery aren't that much more useless than the same thing on archers are they? So shouldn't everyone be talking about archers as well?

The Unyielding Posts : 802 Join date : 2013-05-31

Ok here I see Bblazer wanting to remove arty's techs just because it's useless AP... mostly...
Then it turns to them being OP already anyway?

Why LIA lost that tech, who didn't like it?.. Why people just want to nerf everything...
Archer armor and cannon armor aren't that similar.....

Posts : 782 Join date : 2013-07-19

Fyrr wrote:: Ok here I see Bblazer wanting to remove arty's techs just because it's useless AP... mostly...
Then it turns to them being OP already anyway?

Why LIA lost that tech, who didn't like it?.. Why people just want to nerf everything...
Archer armor and cannon armor aren't that similar.....

I kind of consider the cannon armor more important since they have less hp. 1 extra arrow volley of survival for a cannon can be the difference between a cannon that dies early and a cannon that gets many more devastating shots in before it goes.

Posts : 231 Join date : 2013-09-08

Even though I barely do anything, the last thing I want to see is stuff taken out of this game. It would probably be more counter productive to add more research methods to increase the armor of some units or something but I am completely against making the already limited research tree even smaller.

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

I agree that, if there is an issue, its applying to archers and arti equally.

I remember i did find that annoying to have wasted AP on my ranged units. However that was before our B25 AP was raised from 2500 to 4000. I myself favored to have a tweak that would turn the melee research into missile bonus for ranged units. But i also didnt know there was any cap on artillery missile. Now that doesnt sound too fair for other races (elves probably dont cap missile below 80, probably the values are same as for archers).

So a suggestion would be to remove missile caps from arti !
At current state its really hard to argue against it from any point of view i can project myself into. Artillery isnt the most accurate toy around, why would it need a limit in missile while missile is obscenely difficult to obtain and even harder to notice its influence? You are just relying on your luck with rolls. [And dont ever reroll your artillery for gems, it will make you get all the other useless stats like morale and (melee)str. Sounds like something waiting for a fix for a while too, right?]

Then turn the melee research to apply missile bonus to ranged units.
When i suggest it ppl will make it sound like its a biased elven archer buff request Sad

. Downside, i admit. Nerf elven archers in base strengh and missile a slight little to ballance. [Elven archers because they are the only ones not managing to reach missile caps with regular equipment easy and not overcapping everything else by 50 AP]

Fixing a wasted AP issue by turning it to useful AP. Sounds good to me.

Posts : 74 Join date : 2014-01-01 Location : France

Tibr wrote:: So a suggestion would be to remove missile caps from arti !

Posts : 1043 Join date : 2013-07-09 Age : 41

This isn't relevant at all but Arillery is spelled artillery...