Undead been tweaked?

I am curious about something. On the old server, undead were pretty balanced # of troops greater, HP per troop less....

It seems now on the new server undead have more life or something and the same numbers.

I'm getting wiped out WAY more often now...about 2 out of 5 fights on average...before it was 1 in 10...maybe 2 in 10...

Did the undead get a boost or something?

Cause it sure seems odd that my dwarves are losing now about 40% of the time vs 10-20% before.

This is on NORMAL level too...I hate to see hard or god forbid nightmare...or worse...

I have had similar problems. One of the things that I was curious about, was why there AP was SO mush lower than any other race? The fact that they are unbreakable and the LI and HI get more troops per unit makes no sense to me, while their starting stats are near the same as Elves, like I am on Olympus and Huamns like I was on Everos. Also their reaction is the best overall as a race for infantry which seems odd to me as skellies should move a bit slower than beings that are alive. Now all of this arguement is based off of the Sticky in Tips and guides about Starting and Caps of units. If something has changed that would be great to know. Oh, and I just noticed they have more HPs as well.

I just do not understand how that all equates to the Undead having fewer AP than every other race out there. If anything it should be the other way around, that they have the highest AP of any race. I should generally be able to win against the AI at 90% I would hope, and since I do not have any PvP experience I can not say anything there.

Well I know one thing, undead are now the hardest race on the dark side to fight again. As a dwarf, orcs are a cakewalk. Demons are not much harder as long as I flank the HI.

Undead? Cripes!

My dwarven LI goes head to head with full gear (all 4 at +5 or higher) and a fully geared hero (all 3 slots at +5 or better) one on one.

Neither side breaks...I lose and their unit still has 2-5 skeletons O_o

This has happened at least 6 times since I started keeping track in the last 3 days.

The darkies have pushed the light side back on both fronts to the tune the north is now lost to us even with the CP bonus and alot of big gem buying lighters fighting and the south seems to be getting pushed back now too...seems an odd coincidence that this is happening at the same time this undead stuff got my notice.

I mean we had pushed far into the north and south but now its the entire reverse and its coincided with this undead thing.

Maybe just an odd coincidence I dunno....

They have always been a pain here on Olympus, the funny thing is that when I Co Op against Undead I never have any problems. It is only when in solo missions that I encounter the problems with the Undead.

Now the problem is that if you get a bad run of Undead in solo missions, and you lose at a higher rate than usual, then it costs the light side CP on losses that shouldn't be.

Jormogon wrote:

They have always been a pain here on Olympus, the funny thing is that when I Co Op against Undead I never have any problems. It is only when in solo missions that I encounter the problems with the Undead.

Now the problem is that if you get a bad run of Undead in solo missions, and you lose at a higher rate than usual, then it costs the light side CP on losses that shouldn't be.

Well that would be correct perhaps if I ran solo missions. I don't normally unless its a quest. I do CoOp not stop.

And I have had this happen in them.

Simeron77089 wrote:

Well I know one thing, undead are now the hardest race on the dark side to fight again. As a dwarf, orcs are a cakewalk.

Has to do with the racial bonus dwarves gain against orcs.

Simeron77089 wrote:

Demons are not much harder as long as I flank the HI.

Demons are assasins, brute force but less hp. Dwarves have been seen as the tanks traditionally, so them being able to take some damage is logical.

Simeron77089 wrote:

The darkies have pushed the light side back on both fronts to the tune the north is now lost to us even with the CP bonus and alot of big gem buying lighters fighting and the south seems to be getting pushed back now too...seems an odd coincidence that this is happening at the same time this undead stuff got my notice.

This is something totally irrelevant of race battles. It seems, that you want to connect race choice to tactical superiority and political .

Seccondly, you are comparing with false data. We have been stronger since the beginning, simply due to activity. However, in your moment of peak amongst the lightside, there was an infighting amongst the two best guilds on the dark side, which has been solved now. Besides fom that, cps spent by ruach and dobraine apeared to have dropped for some reason until recently.

As an former elf, I can say this: UD have certainly not been tweaked. IF anything, they have been nerfed, as in their behaviour regarding arti and archers. I used to fight UD with level 6-7 fully equiped archers, and mostly failed. Now I am having a tough time fighting level 3-4's elves as an UD.

Wave_Rida wrote:

This is something totally irrelevant of race battles. It seems, that you want to connect race choice to tactical superiority and political .

Seccondly, you are comparing with false data. We have been stronger since the beginning, simply due to activity.

No, that is where you are wrong.

You are only winning because lots of the old worlds Lighties wanted to be Dark on the new server. You will be overpowered with the noob rushes in a few weeks.

So I am very sorry to break it to you, but you are not superior in tactics or political standing. Just the advantage in numbers. I refer to Pearls post in Diamond where she says that 46 of the top 100 are Darkies. Jokes on you for thinking your better!  

The actual data as of an hour ago:

Top 100 players on Olympus: Dark: 53: 364,287 (54.79%); Light: 47: 300,471 (45.20%); difference: 63,816

The 63,816 extra conquest points of dark is why they currently have more regions.

And yes, so far, dark has been stronger on Olympus since server started, as expected.

Gimli wrote:

Wave_Rida wrote:

This is something totally irrelevant of race battles. It seems, that you want to connect race choice to tactical superiority and political .

Seccondly, you are comparing with false data. We have been stronger since the beginning, simply due to activity.

No, that is where you are wrong.

You are only winning because lots of the old worlds Lighties wanted to be Dark on the new server. You will be overpowered with the noob rushes in a few weeks.

So I am very sorry to break it to you, but you are not superior in tactics or political standing. Just the advantage in numbers. I refer to Pearls post in Diamond where she says that 46 of the top 100 are Darkies. Jokes on you for thinking your better!  

And as I stated, due to tactical superiority. It is a tactic to make sure everyone is fighting on the frontlines, and not half of them in the hinterland. There is a difference between having an advantage, and actually using it.

But lets not derail the threads topic. UD are imho not tweaked, rather nerfed if anything.

Pearl wrote:

The actual data as of an hour ago:

Top 100 players on Olympus: Dark: 53: 364,287 (54.79%); Light: 47: 300,471 (45.20%); difference: 63,816

The 63,816 extra conquest points of dark is why they currently have more regions.

And yes, so far, dark has been stronger on Olympus since server started, as expected.

You beat me to it.   

I would like to add a couple things:

1st:

Dark Faction: 6873.34 CP/ Dark Player in top 100 (more effort per player or within the margin?)
Light Faction: 6393.00 CP/Light Player in top 100 (less effort per player or within the margin?)

2nd:

Was the bonus activated for the Light Faction? If so, the Light numbers are at least somewhat inflated.

3rd:

Small sample size! (Both in number of players and time elapsed, give it time and we'll be back in a stalemate again!   )

Wave_Rida wrote:

Simeron77089 wrote:

Well I know one thing, undead are now the hardest race on the dark side to fight again. As a dwarf, orcs are a cakewalk.

Has to do with the racial bonus dwarves gain against orcs.

Never said anything different and yes, that is why its a cakewalk...dwarves eat orcs easy if the dwarf player has any idea what he is doing or the orc player isn't extra careful due to the racial bonus thing. Dwarves however are also the slowest of the races so it takes us forever to get someplace and forget us chasing anything down most of the time.

Wave_Rida wrote:

Simeron77089 wrote:

Demons are not much harder as long as I flank the HI.

Demons are assasins, brute force but less hp. Dwarves have been seen as the tanks traditionally, so them being able to take some damage is logical.

Not sure what you mean here. I was saying how demon armies do against me. As long as I flank their Heavy Infantry properly, I will win. If they get it into a bottle neck, that is another story sometimes. But they seem to have the SMALLEST HI of anyone though it is better toe to toe per troop.

Wave_Rida wrote:

Simeron77089 wrote:

The darkies have pushed the light side back on both fronts to the tune the north is now lost to us even with the CP bonus and alot of big gem buying lighters fighting and the south seems to be getting pushed back now too...seems an odd coincidence that this is happening at the same time this undead stuff got my notice.

This is something totally irrelevant of race battles. It seems, that you want to connect race choice to tactical superiority and political .

No, this is not totally irrelevant at all. How you can play this game and even think that is beyond me. Control of a hex is directly tied to the number of CPs you generate in that hex.

You generate CPs by winning battles.

If the Undead have been tweaked and are not much harder to kill then before then they have the following advantages...

Better HP (for them then before), more troops per units, never flee.

That is a HUGE advantage in a battle and therefore, if a human vs a Computer AI is losing 10-40% of the time once can figure that human vs computer on the undead side rarely if ever loses and even human vs human they have the advantage.

Therefore they win more battles.

And thus they can put more CPs into a hex and turn the hex to their side or keep the hex easier by lowering the percentage to below 70% before the cycle easier.

Its not the only factor but, again, the huge push the dark side has made oddly coincided with when the undead seemed to get far harder. It may be an odd coincidence and it certainly is NOT the only reason the dark has been more successful but it could well be a contributing factor if indeed the undead have been tweaked which, I am not sure they have been.

That is kinda the reason for the post is to see if this had been done.

Wave_Rida wrote:

Seccondly, you are comparing with false data. We have been stronger since the beginning, simply due to activity. However, in your moment of peak amongst the lightside, there was an infighting amongst the two best guilds on the dark side, which has been solved now. Besides fom that, cps spent by ruach and dobraine apeared to have dropped for some reason until recently.  

I can tell you that both of those players have been pouring in the CPs daily. I fight with them and I see them and read what they are doing.

Yes during the infghting we got very deep into the dark side lines and I expected that once the infighting was dealt with we would get pushed back.

Not sure the dark side is stronger though but that is unconfirmable data and a matter of opinion. I think the light side CP output is more or less comparative to dark side give or take a day.

I know one thing for sure, in the last 2-5 days we have poured tons of CP into hexes and got them to nearly 100% and then, in the blink of an eye, 31% is gone off that hex. I have seen it happen in 4 hexes so far...its 100% then in less then 5 min I go back and its 68%...32% wiped out in 5 min. Or 30%...or something similar...a huge difference.

This is mostly due to the dark side being well organized and effectively hitting a single hex and should be applauded. Don't think I am raining on their parade...I'm not nor am I trying to take anything away from them when it comes to their victory.

What I am saying is that the undead when I fight the computer AI are FAR harder now. And this is a recent change.

Wave_Rida wrote:

As an former elf, I can say this: UD have certainly not been tweaked. IF anything, they have been nerfed, as in their behaviour regarding arti and archers. I used to fight UD with level 6-7 fully equiped archers, and mostly failed. Now I am having a tough time fighting level 3-4's elves as an UD.

And I can tell you as a solid dwarf player, the best tanks as you put it, that at lvl 3-4, fully outfitted with +5 or higher gear in all 4 spots, with lvl 3-4 heros on the units with 3 slots of +5 or higher gear on THEM....I get my arse kicked at least 10% of the time up to 40% of the time against the computer AI Undead troops.

My LI going up against a computer AI Undead LI toe to toe I lose at least 40% of the time if not more. The four times I have deliberately been able to put 1 of my LI agianst 1 of the computer LI I have lost EVERY TIME.

This is hard to accomplish as I dont want archer fire to hit the units...I want a one on one fight with no outside variables.

Now, if dwarves are the tanks of the light side....and we are supposed to be able to take and dish out damage...why then going toe to toe with the race that is supposed to have the WEAKEST HP a no win situation one on one if they are not tweaked when just a week ago it was not?

That is all I am saying...maybe its just the computer generated undead that have a glitch..I don't know.

But something has DEFINITELY changed.

i can agree that UD are slightly better than rest, however their HP has not changed. I do not know from where you have such info.

I never said the UD stats changed just that they sure look far better compared to the AP cost of the unit, maybe the Devs are secretly Necromancers ?   Now the best thing I have come up with is to make sure to not let them get into a giant ball of UD that makes it alot harder that is for sure. As for me, I have gotten to the point where against the UD I split my army in half and let the archers support as needed. This has worked alot better for me against the UD.

Simeron77089 wrote:

I am curious about something. On the old server, undead were pretty balanced # of troops greater, HP per troop less....

It seems now on the new server undead have more life or something and the same numbers.

I'm getting wiped out WAY more often now...about 2 out of 5 fights on average...before it was 1 in 10...maybe 2 in 10...

Did the undead get a boost or something?

Cause it sure seems odd that my dwarves are losing now about 40% of the time vs 10-20% before.

This is on NORMAL level too...I hate to see hard or god forbid nightmare...or worse...

Simple answer.

No, they haven't been tweaked.

Yes, Undead are difficult to begin with, but have certain advantages in mid-game/late-game.

All the rest is ...pure imagination.

UD hardest to begin with? more like the easiest considering your units never flee and don't get killed while fleeing. also more Hp keeps em up much longer then others.

UD are best initially mid-game and later on.

Also i feel like 75% of pve is vs UD. not that i mind since i don't have to chase units but sometimes their giant ball overwhelms me.

when are the coming soon achievement's things coming? soonish  

Bblazer wrote:

when are the coming soon achievement's things coming? soonish Question

You hit where it hurts...

I am not going to say soonish...I am going to say that hopefully this feature will go live next week.

RuneSlayer wrote:

Bblazer wrote:

when are the coming soon achievement's things coming? soonish  Question

You hit where it hurts...

I am not going to say soonish...I am going to say that hopefully this feature will go live next week.

*succeeds in talking like the rest of the angry BC customers*

Just kidding, thought can't wait to get that patch, more competitive play expected.

Not at all Bblazer.