Troll .vs. Troll

I have a new mercenary in my army:



So I took the level 10 troll on a nightmare solo:

• He's kind slow, so the rest of my army tends to rush ahead ...
  
• In the end my level 10 troll went up 1-1 .vs. an enemy level 10 troll ....
  

Here is the result:



Explanation:

• My army is fighting in upper-left.
  
• In the lower-right, the enemy AI level 10 troll has completed splattered my level 10 troll - and has ~75% health still left!
  

Here is a close-up of the lower right:



Considering mercenaries cannot wear armor, other than researches, I would think my level 10 mercenary troll is pretty evenly matched against the AI level 10 troll.

Its seems odd the AI one won with 75% of health left.

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ADDENDUM:

The rest of the battle this super strong AI level 10 troll (It *appeared* to me to be stronger than other level 10 trolls I had encountered, but this may be confirmation bias):

• Proceeded to slaughter the all the rest of my army with ease, except for the archers that ran away
  
• I, therefore had to kite this troll in the end to win.
  

Kiting took quite a while:



Here is a tree of my researches, which are reasonably advanced:



So even if the AI troll has Platemail Armor, Adamantium Armor, Forged Weapons & Runed weapons all researched I don't see how it can win a one-vs-one fight against a same level troll with ~75% health remaining.

NOTES:

• I have 90%+ confidence level the initial fight was only level 10 troll .vs. level 10 troll; though I might be mistaken ... I will do more testing;
  
• I think nightmare are appropriate difficulty.  And I have no objection to the AI trolls being stronger than my trolls ... just if they are ... I want to see a level 12 troll splatter my level 10 troll!!! (rather than a level 10 troll splatter my level 10 troll)
  

Noone had ever said Ai mercs are not "getting gear". They benefit from the current g.s. modifier of up to 95% on nightmare difficulty. I dont find the result surprising considering the purple stuff.

It should change with the patch we are hopefully about to receive. Although Ai mercs will still be stronger on equal level.

I can 100% confirm that the AI Mercenary units do NOT receive any special bonuses. A recruited level 10 Troll is exactly the same with a level 10 AI Troll.

It is very possible that the AI Troll knew how to kick your Troll's ass.

Explanation: Got very lucky in special ability rolls and combat rolls.

Interesting, this changes a lot. So you are saying that the higher the game difficulty the easier it gets to defeat mercs? How ironic
Superendgame mercs become the easiest targets.

Logic at hand -> higher difficulty -> much better gear on player units to win

Difference between AI units: lvl 10 HI on nightmare difficulty and lvl 20 HI on suicide difficulty.
This shouldnt even be compareable at all. Its difficulty gear score + 10 levels gear score + 30 stats from levels. Overall probably a total of 100+ more stats.

Now lets have a look on the troll: lvl 10 troll and lvl 20 troll differ only in 30 stats.

RuneSlayer wrote:

I can 100% confirm that the AI Mercenary units do NOT receive any special bonuses. A recruited level 10 Troll  is exactly the same with a level 10 AI Troll.

It is very possible that the AI Troll knew how to kick your Troll's ass.

Explanation: Got very lucky in special ability rolls and combat rolls.

How do I hire the smarter wiser & superior AI troll that knows how to kick my [current] Troll's ass?

Especially as it seems to have the extra special dice: Super lucky special ability & combat rolls!  

Tibr wrote:

Interesting, this changes a lot. So you are saying that the higher the game difficulty the easier it gets to defeat mercs? How ironic Smile
Superendgame mercs become the easiest targets.

I never said that. The higher the difficulty, the higher the level of the Mercs, therefore the more difficult they are.

Tibr wrote:

Difference between AI units: lvl 10 HI on nightmare difficulty and lvl 20 HI on suicide difficulty.
This shouldnt even be compareable at all. Its difficulty gear score + 10 levels gear score + 30 stats from levels. Overall probably a total of 100+ more stats.

Now lets have a look on the troll: lvl 10 troll and lvl 20 troll differ only in 30 stats.

Wrong and wrong.

They are not comparable. AI on suicide will be well equipped in comparison to an AI unit on nightmare difficulty. Btw... There is the Insane difficulty between them as well.

Take a look at their special abilities as well. A single 5% can really make a difference.

Joyce wrote:

How do I hire the smarter wiser & superior AI troll that knows how to kick my [current] Troll's ass?

Especially as it seems to have the extra special dice: Super lucky special ability & combat rolls! Wink

Just treat your Troll right. You know..the usual....Feed it with fresh goblins, dwarfs and such...

Right, sorry my mistake. I meant to say the giant and not the troll.

To explain again what i mean with other words.

Hi and Giant both get their abilities maxed at lvl 9 already. Past that they are only gaining stats/hitpoints.

While HI is benefiting from gear the giant is not. HI is getting more and better gear the higher the difficulty and the higher its level.

Now imagine a player enters nightmare difficulty with lvl 20 units. AI fields lvl 20 HI that may have gearscore of 150 (50 base gear from nightmare difficulty and 5 each unit level, wild guess only for the explanation purpose)

Now imagine a player enters suicide difficulty with lvl 20 units. AI fields lvl 20 HI that now has a gearscore of 300 (150 base gear from suicide difficulty ...) Obviously that much gearscore difference will result in insane stat differences that i estimated to 100+ in my previous post.

Now we repeat the simulation with a lvl 20 Giant on both difficulties. And we notice no difference at all, but since players will likely use godlikes for suicide difficulty and only rares for nightmare difficulty - killing same lvl 20 giant on suicide is easier. Which means while other units get a lot stronger on higher difficulties, the giant is not. Statement is valid for all other mercs past lvl 15, the giant is the exception because it gets crush 3 on 9th level already.

Tibr wrote:

Right, sorry my mistake. I meant to say the giant and not the troll.

To explain again what i mean with other words.

Hi and Giant both get their abilities maxed at lvl 9 already. Past that they are only gaining stats/hitpoints.

While HI is benefiting from gear the giant is not. HI is getting more and better gear the higher the difficulty and the higher its level.

Now imagine a player enters nightmare difficulty with lvl 20 units. AI fields lvl 20 HI that may have gearscore of 150 (50 base gear from nightmare difficulty and 5 each unit level, wild guess only for the explanation purpose)

Now imagine a player enters suicide difficulty with lvl 20 units. AI fields lvl 20 HI that now has a gearscore of 300 (150 base gear from suicide difficulty ...) Obviously that much gearscore difference will result in insane stat differences that i estimated to 100+ in my previous post.

Now we repeat the simulation with a lvl 20 Giant on both difficulties. And we notice no difference at all, but since players will likely use godlikes for suicide difficulty and only rares for nightmare difficulty - killing same lvl 20 giant on suicide is easier. Which means while other units get a lot stronger on higher difficulties, the giant is not. Statement is valid for all other mercs past lvl 15, the giant is the exception because it gets crush 3 on 9th level already.

The Giant's abilities keep getting increased even after lvl 9. Check again.

Suicide difficulty will be tough, no doubt about it, but we never intended on making it impossible. Players will STILL be able to win, but the AI will spawn min 15+ units with +2 levels higher than the player's and its gear will be.....quite good. Rewards and drops will also be good though.

My level 10 troll here losing badly to level 6 Ogre Pitmaster:



Comments:

• My troll proceeded to get more damaged & then flee like a coward with only 20% health left (having doing pretty much less than 10% damage to the ogre).
  
• I do understand, of course, a Pitmaster is more tankish & a Troll is more roguish (with Area of Effect abiiites due to Acid, so he probably needs a tank to defend him to use properly), so its not too suprising the troll is losing;
  
• Still that my troll lost by so much to a level 6 Ogre ... suprised me ...
  

I'll post more 1 on 1 attempt with the troll as I try them later ... he has to win *sometime* ... I hope ...

Due to the fact Pitmasters ignore Endurance checks, and Trolls generally fair far better vs Weaker units, I would say that battle is going as expected.

I agree with your initial Troll vs Troll concerns though. (although that has been explained).

Pitmasters are good at killing tough things.

Joyce! Answer me why you can't reduce the size of your screenshots before posting..? Most people still can see that without having to scroll to side, but it seems unclean and changes the default width. Is it so hard for you?...

Aaaand trolls are weak. Hah I even remember how you hurt mine in one of our pvps. I guess they're best used as LIA or cav (meaning to flank), but the speed is bad for that...

There acid splash ability makes them good for combat with multiple weak attacks.

Anything that can pack a punch you shouldn't be fighting with a troll

Wow.

Fyrr wrote: Joyce! Answer me why you can't reduce the size of your screenshots before posting..? Most people still can see that without having to scroll to side, but it seems unclean and changes the default width. Is it so hard for you?... Fyrr, I have been reducing them (to 75% or so), but I guess not enough! My apologies, sorry ... I'll reduce them even more in the future & provide links to the full picture in the future. Thanks for the reminder .. I'll do even better in future ... Fyrr wrote: Aaaand trolls are weak. Hah I even remember how you hurt mine in one of our pvps. I guess they're best used as LIA or cav (meaning to flank), but the speed is bad for that... Yah, I remember that fight -- really need to get back to PvP soon! Also, you are right about the trolls ... they are slow ... which makes them a little difficult to use ... I'm still trying to figure how to use him properly; has only been  three days, and I'm starting to get a sense of how to use him ...; right now I send in my Royal Guard (Heavy Infantry) first, then the troll & then the Waykeepers (Light Infantry); seems to work well.

A nice small picture ... to make Fyrr happy

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XViper wrote:

There acid splash ability makes them good for combat with multiple weak attacks.

Anything that can pack a punch you shouldn't be fighting with a troll

Agreed ... that is the conclusion I am coming too also ...