someperson - competition

Posts : 21 Join date : 2013-10-21

this is the competition page I have on my webpage. It was public and people could enter our chat freely and discuss it if wanted to, but others want it on forums, so I am posting here. It is a copy and paste deal.
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I think all of the light faction is aware of the infighting we have had that has been going on for quite some time, with the majority of us being rather sick of it, whether or not we do get to show off our own muscles and pound on some people in the progress.

I propose to all guilds and all guild leaders a competition. The hex's that truly matter are the resources, those are the ones that truly help the guilds' members growth in the game to happen quicker, or give special units with unique abilities and extra loot bonuses. Some people would really like to use the temple, I know I hate hero healing times.. or the forge, with just how much more that equipment matters now.

However we only have a limited number of each. 15 resources in total on light side at the moment, more opening up only as we move westward, and only if we can manage this. 44 lands held by the light faction in total, more opening up only as we move west again (and take back our places)

My competition places the resources to guilds that own them based on activity for our faction, as well as 2 lands for support for the guild in question. In short, the guilds that put out, get the rewards. The reason say, a guild that does 50k cp in a day should get a land is because they have earned it, as compared to a guild that might do 1k cp per day, as it were. These guilds that will have the land from the competition, are the ones that have earned them. It is something that we struggle for, we come to this game and play for. If we spend all this time and effort to win, grow ourselves strong, and unify in guilds for strength, havent we earned it?

So to this end I propose this, should most guilds be willing to support this competition, especially the greater ones. Starting one day next week from today (24th of october) I will take first screenshot of the guilds on the guild pages, every page and post them online, with a spreadsheet of all light guilds. Each day I will post on a different page all guilds again, and it will be public for all to see current cp totals, and on the spreadsheet have everything notated on there, and current to date cp progress, so all can see how they are doing on the competition. The competition will last for a period of one week (say if we were in agreement and started at 6 pm wednesday, then it would end at 6 pm the following wednesday).

The rewards would be as follows : First through fourth place in competition gets 2 resources and 6 lands in total (the resource land counts as one of the lands, so 6 lands, with 2 of them being resources). Fifth through eleventh get one resource and 3 lands in total (again, 3 lands in total, with one of those lands being the resource lands). This meaning the top four are the ones most established, the ones that put the most effort in so far, they do the lions share, they get the lions share. It also does not ignore the other top ones that have and do alot of work, and have earned a place on the map of their own.

However, a guild that is small, and does not do much, or cannot compete with any of the ones above them for aplace on the map, does not get anything in this. A person that comes to this game has many choices of guilds that already exist. Why should a person that just started this game, expect to come to it, with being weak and insignificant as it is, expect to create a guild and get land just because they are here? Especially as compared to teh ones that have already earned it? You have the option of joining these guilds as it were anyway. Join them. But to have a small guild that does maybe 3k cp output a week, look at a guild that does about 100k per week and say hey, you have 2 lands, we deserve one too, is rediculous, because really you havent.

For the guilds that do not place, you have the option of joining one of these other guilds and having use of the resources yourselves, and a unified existing guild that is already and has been growing and doing alot for the game, or you can remain the family that you are of friends and individuals that just wanna hang out together, all that is fine, but please understand that the lands on the map are rewards for people to take. To have a unified light faction among the powers that be, to see them be where they are earned is probably the only place to have it.

This is my petition. It is for all the light faction for its unity and progress in the game, and to win.

I have a listing of the first 75 light guilds on my webpage. Though only xviper responded for his guild, arvaxus for ours, and prism for theirs, at the time noone else seemed interested enough to even read of the competition. But comment freely here and I will post.

Posts : 21 Join date : 2013-10-21

A week about after i originally posted this on the webpage has seen drastic losses in the light faction as far as land. Here is my concerns. At first given the bad leaderships of many I was still willing to work with them, if they would unite the light faction, work together in this, and see us actually be a union of guilds. With the exception of six who is always a major butt kicker for the light faction, the two ck guilds have been nearly non-existant in the war efforts of the light side, not defending while the dark side goes after one guild straight towards our capital, with darkies knowing ck and ck arent defending.

Honestly, personally (not representing my guild in this), I would like to see a much improved ck leadership evolve rather suddenly that doesnt have its head up its rear end. If it voted to have the competition in place, support each guild in it etc, then I would see letting them stay in faction because its needed. If it doesnt, and a part of me wants to see it that way, I will go to every single guild and try to have a meeting with its leaderships as far as ignoring light faction hexs' as much as ck has and letting them win as ck guilds have, and removing ck from the light map by infighting, and humiliating you losers away from the game. That way next turn we dont have you here anymore.

I am not leader of my guild, the competition I dont have a voice in, and I would honor it, but personally I am itching to pound on you for the sheer joy of it.

This is my thoughts personally.

Posts : 104 Join date : 2013-05-26

This is nothing new.

This competition has already taken place months ago and was diplomatically decided without a single wasted CP.

The obvious winners currently own the majority of the bonus regions available. Those that have gone by the wayside (Average, Judgement, Survivors, Vanguard of Valkarie) no longer have bonus regions.

It only takes 1 individual within 1 guild, which is not CK-Radiant-Avengers to make up their mind to fight for the light side, instead of the dark side, in order to change things up. Nobody wants to fight when they KNOW that a single light side guild is fracking it up for all the rest of us. That guild is producing a lot of CP, but its in the backfield and isn't helping the light side in the slightest.

You want to know why most people are not fighting? 2 reasons really.....

1) WE don't need the Dark getting another +25% CP day where they take 7 regions in 24 hours. The big CP generators on the light side pretty much all know that if the light side generates to much CP, then the Dark Side gets a bonus. Why bust our asses to 'take 2 regions' when we know the next day the Dark Side will get a huge bonus and just plow through us and take 3-4 regions.

2) The horrible frelling load of dren that has been propagandized into the Faction chat and in that 1 guild's offsite forums. Nobody feels like fighting for the light side when they know that such evil and vile lies are being spread falsely about honorable players and guilds. At least not unless they can directly target the individual spreading those lies and propaganda.

Joseph Goebbels had nothing on Joyce. Indeed, if he were alive, I think he would be taking notes and nodding with a bemused smile at her actions and words.

Posts : 774 Join date : 2013-07-26

THAN0S wrote:: Joseph Goebbels had nothing on Joyce. Indeed, if he were alive, I think he would be taking notes and nodding with a bemused smile at her actions and words.

For those not aware, Than0s is comparing me to Jospeh Goebbels. I doubt such accusations can lead to productively working together soon - but will probably only make it take longer to overcome the misunderstandings.

Than0s,

I'll take this to mean you are not yet interested in working together; or of accepting & acknowledging Crimson's role in this whole mess starting with the poor leadership in the decision to take #92 from Judgement, and followed by a whole series of of other poor leadership decisions, the main one being vile & disgusting name calling from Stinkfinger (including as recently as October 26th, 2013 - though that was mild compared to his previous outbursts).

Let me know when you change your mind.

Thanks,

Joy

Posts : 830 Join date : 2013-08-23 Location : Australia

Joyce wrote:: the main one being vile & disgusting name calling from Stinkfinger.

Have been witness to multiple occurrences of this in recent days, and think Stinkfingers behaviour to be downright reprehensible. When I asked him to tone it down, I got pretty much the same vulgarity directed at me. I'm not entirely sure he shouldn't be taking a mandated holiday after some of the shit I saw. Regardless of the diplomatic differences our faction is currently experiencing, nothing warrants that crap.

Joyce is well aware I don't agree with some of her ideas, of which we've discussed (quite maturely I might add), via PM. I don't see how name calling is required.

Posts : 104 Join date : 2013-05-26

Joyce wrote:: or of accepting & acknowledging Crimson's role in this whole mess starting with the poor leadership in the decision to take #92 from Judgement

Let me know when you change your mind.

Thanks,

Joy

Thank you for bringing this up in public. Lets set the record straight for all the hear.

All major guilds on the light side, all front page guilds, all agreed on how to spread out the Bonus Regions. Each major guild was given their choice of Capital based on size, then their choice of 'expansion' based on size, up to their current limit. CK was the biggest guild so we choose the center, moving forward, but made it obvious that we would 'really like' the Ogres, since it was right next to our Capital. To make this effective everybody was required to fight on the front and not overly influence the back regions or we would loose the North or South central regions to the Dark (Temple+Rich Lands). Back in those days the Light Side was kicking the Dark Sides butt and we controlled both, easily.

Venatorraptor (vice of Judgement, the 6th largest light side guild which wasn't saying much since it was less than 1/10th the size of CK) decided that he personally wanted the Ogres to help him in PVP battles, the only kind of battles he liked at the time. CK rolled with it and so did everybody else, we wanted to keep the peace and with control of the North and South (the Rich land and Temple areas) we figured that the light side would eventually benefit enough to take the Dark Capital.

Unfortunately Vena decided that despite already having the best merc bonus region and only about 25 active members, that they had to have #92. At the time this was unknown to CK, but it became evident later. Judgement started building up Influence in its capital and instead of taking non-bonus regions moving forward towards the front lines where other bonus regions awaited, they took #81 and #87 instead. (Avengers was the next largest guild and decided they would take the Training Ground in the North as their Capital and moved to the Temple and Rich Lands from there, eventually taking the Giant Spiders.) The next largest guild was Crimson Knights who put their Capital in 83. At the time Knights was lower ranked than Judgement, but could only control 2 locations and Judgement could control three.

Judgement's backwards movement was tolerated to keep the peace and they said they were guarding their 'allies' capital (Avengers). However, without having a 4th location available, due to their guild being to small, they could not 'take' #92. Regardless Judgement started building influence there, violating the agreement to fight on the front. Crimson Knights had a very nice donation made which allowed them to gain a guild level and be able to take a 3rd location and had grown larger than Judgement who had lost membership. Crimson Knights had every right to choose their 2nd expansion before a lower ranked guild, Judgement, who was going after their 3rd expansion. There was bitching, but in the end it was obvious to everybody else that Judgement was not in the right.

At that point Vena's started plotting revenge. She got Exterminator and Vanguard of Valkalrie, his guild, as well as Williamwall and Avengers to start plotting against CK. They tried to get Radiant, but they refused, which is how CK initially discovered the issue. They also went after Average, but by that time Average's leadership was in shambles and the guild was falling in the rankings and would be of no use. So they called their little alliance JAVA and plotted to destroy CK and split up the Bonus Regions amongst them.

Somebody ratted them out and copied a meeting (Screen Shots) and sent it to CK Leadership. JAVA presented a clear and present danger to CK. Judgement had 40% influence in their capital and 25-30% or more in their expansions. 20% had been the acceptable limit by previous agreement and all other CP should be on the front line opening up more bonus regions by taking them from the Dark. CK put the call out for all our big guns and anybody else to all be online for a 6 hour period the day before JAVA was going to go into action. When Vena woke up, Judgement had no regions and half her active players had defected to other guilds. He tried for a bit to bluster, but found out that his allies were not in a position to help him. He disbanded Judgement and left the game.

VoV stopped being factor and Avengers decided is was a MUCH better idea to be allies of CK than be its enemies. So know CK, Radiant, and Avengers are allied. We fight the Dark and we want for the Light Side to have the very best chance to defeat the Dark. To do that we have put together bonus regions and their connecting regular regions to our players advantage.

If ANY active player on the Light Side wants to join CK, they are welcome to apply to Crimson Knights. Those that generate 1000CP or more a day, feel free to apply to Crimson Kings.

PS: Yes Joyce, I elevated you above one of the greatest acknowledged propagandist of the modern era. Even though he is beneath you, it never hurts to do a little bit of research. He is often misquoted, yet there is a striking similarity between the two of you.

Posts : 7 Join date : 2013-08-03

Than0s I can understand that you do not like Prism's interference with the goals of Crimson. I get it. Before Prism came along the CK had pretty much control of everything. There was Knights, Kings, Krusaders at one point, Killerz, and Elysium. Crimson could take what it wanted, when it wanted, and dictate to other guilds what they were allowed to have. Seeing all that power slip from your grasp must be frustrating indeed. But it is reality.

I am very much interested in a discussion to divide resource tiles. I have some different ideas. I am actually not far from your ideas in terms of division by percentage, although there are some other ways to look at that issue.

However, I am not interested in discussing these things in the context of nastiness and hatred. When you compare people to Third Reich war criminals that is low class. When Stinkfinger logs in to rant and call people names that is low class. Gone are the days when you and the others like you will simply shout out others in faction chat and try to bully. I would like to come to the table and discuss some different ideas to make people happy in the game, but not under that atmosphere.

I believe I see your vision, but it is not because you make a clear case. I believe that you want to see the light faction composed of 5-6 super guilds which work together. That is a position with some merit that even I think I could argue logically and effectively. You are so busy name calling that you are not making an effective case. You are also used to dictating. Do you want to know why there are so many little guilds running around? It's because they don't want you (or me) telling them what to do. Has it occurred to you that there are other points of view that have merit? I think not - as your responses indicate that if people want nice things they better join big guilds. As one of the leaders of a 3-4 guild cohort that is a logical position for you to take, but not one that is popular for people on the outside looking in.

The moral of the story is this - please act like a gentleman so we can open negotiations. Do you think that Haskier or Stinkfinger calling me names is going to make me see your points? Moreover, has that strategy brought Prism to do the will of Crimson? It has failed. Let's try something different? There is a better way.

Posts : 21 Join date : 2013-10-21

THAN0S wrote:: This is nothing new.

This competition has already taken place months ago and was diplomatically decided without a single wasted CP.

The obvious winners currently own the majority of the bonus regions available. Those that have gone by the wayside (Average, Judgement, Survivors, Vanguard of Valkarie) no longer have bonus regions.

It only takes 1 individual within 1 guild, which is not CK-Radiant-Avengers to make up their mind to fight for the light side, instead of the dark side, in order to change things up. Nobody wants to fight when they KNOW that a single light side guild is fracking it up for all the rest of us. That guild is producing a lot of CP, but its in the backfield and isn't helping the light side in the slightest.

You want to know why most people are not fighting? 2 reasons really.....

1) WE don't need the Dark getting another +25% CP day where they take 7 regions in 24 hours. The big CP generators on the light side pretty much all know that if the light side generates to much CP, then the Dark Side gets a bonus. Why bust our asses to 'take 2 regions' when we know the next day the Dark Side will get a huge bonus and just plow through us and take 3-4 regions.

2) The horrible frelling load of dren that has been propagandized into the Faction chat and in that 1 guild's offsite forums. Nobody feels like fighting for the light side when they know that such evil and vile lies are being spread falsely about honorable players and guilds. At least not unless they can directly target the individual spreading those lies and propaganda.

Joseph Goebbels had nothing on Joyce. Indeed, if he were alive, I think he would be taking notes and nodding with a bemused smile at her actions and words.

The board does not show obvious winners. Actually screenshot from this morning to about 20 minutes ago and me looking it over by guild, crimson kings places 9th in guilds, enough for 1 resource and 3 hexes in total counting resource lands. knights wouldnt place. That is how inactive your guild is. You are a waste of space in this to be quite honest.

next comment you made is crap. You dare to blame another guild, and yet both ck guilds, that act like top dogs, wont do crap, and you are talkin about another. Earn the right to talk about another, if you talk the talk you better grow up and walk the walk. At least Joyce when she says she will do something and say she is doing something, that is exactly what she is doing.
The members of the two ck guilds, spout alot of crap with no action, I am still waiting to see it.
I will also sit here and tell you if there is a war in the back lines that is a guild war, heres a freakin news flash. Yes there is going to be cp spent back there, and lots of it. I spent most of mine for 5 days kickin the crap out of turtles and getting them out of the way, and then kickin the grail in the junk. And before you say joyce this or joyce that, that was something I asked personally to do because members of grail ticked me off, so you want to say anyone, then you take it up with me.

then you have the nerve to post these 2 reasons why most people arent fighting.

1. waaah dark side fought back and claimed more territory than we did when they had a bonus. if they took 7 places in 24 hours that means we had a bonus next day, but apparently you turned chicken and most likely the rest of your guild / friends and didnt wanna fight back. And still to this day arent fighting back from the looks of things. Why do you still deserve those bonus hexes?

2. You speak badly of joyce, but teh thing is, when your people accuse her of stuff, and she shows screenshots from the things that actually happen, she makes you look like butts and you dont like it, that is what it seems like to me. Good and honorable people are honest and blunt, whether or not they have proof of the things that have happened. But it loks like joyce has learned to keep all mails, and screenshot all things she sees as important conversations so she can always review them / post them when necessary, and it seems like you are cought with your pants down when she shows you the things that really happened, and you dont freakin like it. Grow up.

And you want to accuse someone of acting like joseph, before you do this at least act like someone that wasnt his drunk ditsy prostiitute that he didnt teach well

Posts : 21 Join date : 2013-10-21

you say you have screenshots, post them.

Posts : 774 Join date : 2013-07-26

Joyce wrote:: accepting & acknowledging Crimson's role in this whole mess starting with the poor leadership in the decision to take #92 from Judgement

THAN0S wrote:: Thank you for bringing this up in public. Lets set the record straight for all the hear.

Thank you for your excellent summary, Than0s. This is the most coherent explanation of the situation with Judgement I have heard in three months, and matches what other people I trust have told me.

It also helps reconcile a few misunderstandings, based on stories from other people.

THAN0S wrote:: All major guilds on the light side, all front page guilds, all agreed on how to spread out the Bonus Regions. Each major guild was given their choice of Capital based on size, then their choice of 'expansion' based on size, up to their current limit. CK was the biggest guild so we choose the center, moving forward, but made it obvious that we would 'really like' the Ogres, since it was right next to our Capital. To make this effective everybody was required to fight on the front and not overly influence the back regions or we would loose the North or South central regions to the Dark (Temple+Rich Lands). Back in those days the Light Side was kicking the Dark Sides butt and we controlled both, easily.

This reconciles two different versions I have heard; and how both are true finally make sense to me. Thanks Smile

THAN0S wrote:: Venatorraptor (vice of Judgement, the 6th largest light side guild which wasn't saying much since it was less than 1/10th the size of CK) decided that he personally wanted the Ogres to help him in PVP battles, the only kind of battles he liked at the time. CK rolled with it and so did everybody else, we wanted to keep the peace and with control of the North and South (the Rich land and Temple areas) we figured that the light side would eventually benefit enough to take the Dark Capital.

I have no knowledge of this, nor has anyone else told me this story; however, this sounds exactly like Venatorraptor, so I believe you.

THAN0S wrote:: Unfortunately Vena decided that despite already having the best merc bonus region and only about 25 active members, that they had to have #92. At the time this was unknown to CK, but it became evident later. Judgement started building up Influence in its capital and instead of taking non-bonus regions moving forward towards the front lines where other bonus regions awaited, they took #81 and #87 instead. (Avengers was the next largest guild and decided they would take the Training Ground in the North as their Capital and moved to the Temple and Rich Lands from there, eventually taking the Giant Spiders.) The next largest guild was Crimson Knights who put their Capital in 83. At the time Knights was lower ranked than Judgement, but could only control 2 locations and Judgement could control three.

This matches my recollection of what happened in the few days after I joined the game on Tuesday, July 27th, 2013, the same day that Guild Layers 1 came out.

The next part is where we diverge:

Than0's version:

THAN0S wrote:: Judgement's backwards movement was tolerated to keep the peace and they said they were guarding their 'allies' capital (Avengers). However, without having a 4th location available, due to their guild being to small, they could not 'take' #92. Regardless Judgement started building influence there, violating the agreement to fight on the front. Crimson Knights had a very nice donation made which allowed them to gain a guild level and be able to take a 3rd location and had grown larger than Judgement who had lost membership. Crimson Knights had every right to choose their 2nd expansion before a lower ranked guild, Judgement, who was going after their 3rd expansion. There was bitching, but in the end it was obvious to everybody else that Judgement was not in the right.

First, let me say I agree with the facts that you recite - with one exception "violating the agreement to fight on the front (comments on the right)"
My disagreement is with the rights you assert (comments on the right)

Joyce's version (by editing Than0s' version):

Judgement's backwards movement was tolerated to keep the peace and they said they were guarding their 'allies' capital (Avengers). However, without having a 4th location available, due to their guild being to small, they could not 'take' #92. Regardless Judgement started building influence there, ~~violating the agreement to fight on the front~~. Crimson Knights had a very nice donation made which allowed them to gain a guild level and be able to take a 3rd location and had grown larger than Judgement who had lost membership. Crimson Knights ~~had every right~~ to choose their 2nd expansion before a lower ranked guild, Judgement, who was going after their 3rd expansion. There was bitching, but in the end it was obvious to ~~everybody else~~ that Judgement was not in the right.

Comments on the ~~violating the agreement to fight on the front~~:

The consistent story from everyone I have heard from, is that everyone believes that there was an agreement to fight on the front;
However, Venatorraptor, has not given his side of the story -- despite my very persistent asking (the light side can attest that Joyce can be very persistent when she chooses to be);
From other behavior by Venatorraptor, I do not believe that Venatorraptor knows how to make an agreement, nor how to understand the terms of an agreement (more in a later post).
What I do know, is that when Venatorraptor was presented by an ultimatum from Crimson Kings claiming he had violated the spirit of the agreement to fight on the front lines, Venatorraptor slunk off like a dog with his tail between his legs for a few days.
Although, not conclusive, this lends credence to possibility that Venatorraptor did believe he had violated such an agreement

Comments on the ~~had every right~~:

I don't agree you had that right;
and to be more precise, even if you did, the method you choose to exercise, was probably, also, a violation of the agreement to fight on the front lines
Since no has produced this agreement, and I get slightly different, but consistent stories, I do not believe there is a written version of this agreement (that the different parties all have a copy of).

someperson - competition BDyC_fkWar6hsNaCUaK_F3hbXTMcObAY7rfwGwZAfsZ6Gfu7t-kXn-baipsQt3ClZFPwFHqa448phDvblEkwA5fWH5v4_WKLz2_USQT5N-KMA_jcI7F71JT3LA

Comments on the ~~everbody else~~:

As I posted in the thread Truce of the Light Side "Joyce vociferously" to this.
Exterminator123 also objected, and threatened war over #92
To which Stinkfinger argued that Crimson Knight should let #53 fall
Deadpool argued that would be improper behavior
About 8 hours later #53 fell to the dark side

For convience to the left is a copy of the letter posted to the thread Truce of the Light Side where is says "Joyce vociferously" to this (see right side)

NOTE: At this point Than0s' account suddenly jumps forward through three weeks of history in a few sentences.

someperson - competition Knives2

(Picture is from August 15th, 2013.)

THAN0S wrote:: At that point Vena's started plotting revenge. She got Exterminator and Vanguard of Valkalrie, his guild, as well as Williamwall and Avengers to start plotting against CK. They tried to get Radiant, but they refused, which is how CK initially discovered the issue. They also went after Average, but by that time Average's leadership was in shambles and the guild was falling in the rankings and would be of no use. So they called their little alliance JAVA and plotted to destroy CK and split up the Bonus Regions amongst them.

Somebody ratted them out and copied a meeting (Screen Shots) and sent it to CK Leadership. JAVA presented a clear and present danger to CK. Judgement had 40% influence in their capital and 25-30% or more in their expansions. 20% had been the acceptable limit by previous agreement and all other CP should be on the front line opening up more bonus regions by taking them from the Dark. CK put the call out for all our big guns and anybody else to all be online for a 6 hour period the day before JAVA was going to go into action. When Vena woke up, Judgement had no regions and half her active players had defected to other guilds. He tried for a bit to bluster, but found out that his allies were not in a position to help him. He disbanded Judgement and left the game.

I agree with most of this:

By August 13th, 2013, pretty much all the guilds that wanted to fight light .vs. dark, including Prism, viewed Judgement as a cancer on the light faction that was best removed by the guild.
"JAVA presented a clear and present danger to CK." You have got to be kidding me!!!!. On August 8th you wrote "Judgement is a thing of the past. They will cease to exist soon of their own volition". By August 13th, 2013, Judgment was unable to produce more than 700 conquest points per day. The guild was no threat to anyone (well other than Venerapptor being totally annoying in faction chat). It is much more likely, you simply wanted their territories & saw an opportunity.
I agree that, as of August 13th, 2013, Crimson Knights was the most logical guild to get #75 (but not the other two territories to connect to #75 -- though of course Crimson King did need #81 to get to #75 -- though it violated a previous letter)
My serious disagreement was the method in which #75 was taken from Judgement; that is, you just "appropriated" [your word] it, without consulting the other light guilds that wanted to fight light .vs. dark.

someperson - competition GtF97hIum4b__vzQ5y5xCdq61Gk06CWpr-G7omXHkEF83E8DnsY6-yyVwu9q94X9eiUb0sdKQudZq0jxL4EDBY4PPwSdf-HNTbwyw9bEEhSFTbLtNvnlwow2Fw

Letter on August 8, 2013 from Joy to Than0s;

Where she objects to "appropriate";
indicates her view is that the decision needs to be made by the light side;
indicate she is supportive of Crimson Knights getting #75 based on activity as the 2nd most active guild on the front lines
(Context from previous letter, where Crimson Kings is a positive light guild, is also important here -- I can post that one later in a later response)

Later, I have a lot more to say. For now, the above will have to suffice, it is mainly to show where we agree & where we don't agree.

In a later posting, I'll explain, further, why I consider the issue with #92 so serious as to be fracturing the light side to this day.

I want to resolve this & move forward.

Joy.

THAN0S wrote:: PS: Yes Joyce, I elevated you above one of the greatest acknowledged propagandist of the modern era. Even though he is beneath you, it never hurts to do a little bit of research. He is often misquoted, yet there is a striking similarity between the two of you.

A very nice response by you until this, Than0s.

I'll simply repeat what I said before:

For those not aware, Than0s is comparing me to Joseph Goebbels. I doubt such accusations can lead to productively working together soon - but will probably only make it take longer to overcome the misunderstandings.

Posts : 830 Join date : 2013-08-23 Location : Australia

I need to ask both of you, why does any of this even matter now?

What could the Judgement situation possibly have to do with current events?

I don't see how it has any bearing on how the 'related guilds' move forward from here?

Posts : 585 Join date : 2013-10-21

First of all thank you lighties for the entertainment. Top notch, first class really.
You guys know that the hole dark faction is breaking out in devious laughter reading one of the most inapropriate comparisons in the history of this game.

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

I am tired of this whole story myself, as a matter of fact i had joyce muted for 4 weeks because whenever she had anything to say about CK, it was related to the Judgement history enframed with a lot of propaganda and twisted words, despite being told the truth by several ppl over and over and eventually even confirmed by allies of vena. So i am sorry if you dont share that opinion, but the parallel to goebbels is slightly over the board, still goes in the right direction. The last thing i want is this to become yet another Joyce story, i have got enough of that to read in faction chat. Either way Judgement got what they deserved, is obsolete.

Posts : 21 Join date : 2013-10-21

I read the above posts and I am thinkin to myself really. really?

Anyway. Congratulations, you mention a guild needed wiped out, and arguing that as a point for no real reason, considering you are the only ones that brought that up, has no bearing to the issue that was presented, and is meaningless anyway.
I know tibr that if you took your head out of your rear end right now and paid attention you would look pregnant from having your head up there for so long, and look that way for years. So I cant think you will pay attention, but please try.

The reason for so long the argument has been over the land, is because *gasp* its been over the land. After the warring ck kept the lands for themselves, that is the issue. The war didnt matter to any of it. The references to the guild etc that owned it previously, is to refer tot he time frame. I know that may have missed your understanding completely. Its easily understandable how you can miss that. Honestly it is.

You were greedy, selfish, and complete butts. In short, someone did stand up to you, and is quite vocal about it, with evidence I might add, screenshots, posts, mails etc et al.
However you try to mark the person for standing up to you, for breaking the agreements you yourself was a part of (heresay, still wanting to see that agreement over lands), as the bad guy for standing up to you.
You are a complete and utter stupid freakin moron man. wake up

As per dark faction laughin it up at us. Yeah its a pretty sad state of affairs, but lauighin at us and mockin us has been goin for a long time. its nothing new Razz

Posts : 830 Join date : 2013-08-23 Location : Australia

Too much personal attacks, not enough rational and logical arguments.

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-09-11

XViper wrote:: Too much personal attacks, not enough rational and logical arguments.

This completely.

Posts : 698 Join date : 2013-08-21

Sounds like someone is having personal problems he wants to process in the game Crying or Very sad

Arent we supposed to chill and enjoy the BC environment...

Posts : 56 Join date : 2013-07-02

Tibr wrote:: Arent we supposed to chill and enjoy the BC environment...

No, in the grimdark world of distant f... erkhm... (Damn, we need our own lore)

Anyway, there is only war, battle, and conquest Smile

Posts : 830 Join date : 2013-08-23 Location : Australia

WorldEater wrote:

Tibr wrote:: Arent we supposed to chill and enjoy the BC environment...

No, in the grimdark world of distant f... erkhm... (Damn, we need our own lore)

Anyway, there is only war, battle, and conquest Smile

LMFAO. Knew exactly what you were saying Very Happy

Posts : 24 Join date : 2013-10-26

All that name calling. Light really is the new Dark.

Posts : 104 Join date : 2013-05-26

1) The Agreement: Nobody could produce a treaty that wasn't disliked by half the guilds, publicly at least. I was just a recruiter then, but Deadpool promoted me to Diplomat. So, I personally went and talked to every major light side guild about regional placement and a process for choosing. Over the course of a few weeks we worked everything out, guilds choosing 1 at a time.
First choice was based on the Fame Rankings, but regions were chosen as described earlier. There were no major conflicts because there was no guild actually wanting what another guild was going after, at least not publicly, to me, or CK Leadership.
All described agreements/contracts were with me, as representative of CK, and thus all agreements/contracts were with CK. To my knowledge none of the other major guilds had any agreements with each other concerning who got what and who would fight on the front line.

2) Going about it & Appropriation: Radiant was consulted about 75. They declined already having Cave Giants and no open spots at the time. Avengers didn't have the guild level to reach the Ogres and was actually part of JAVA, although William was consulted to discover if he had the guild level. VoV was part of JAVA and could not reach through Radiant. Average was already up in the norther TG at the time and their leader was sent messages and their Diplomat and I had a discussion which concluded they would stay in the north instead of leaving it and taking 75. Survivors never got back to me, in any way, before D-Day.
The only two options were thus Kings or Knights. Kings having the Spiders, thought it would be good to spread the Ogres out to Knights to keep things balanced. Knights, in return extended the SE gold mine to Elysium (kinda had to to make the reach to the Ogres).
People were consulted, just not those that were part of the problem nor those guilds that were not high enough ranked to be considered 'major'. I also contacted most of the 2nd page Light Side guilds to open diplomatic channels. Most of the leaders of which never replied to any message I ever sent them.

Those that were not part of JAVA were not against getting rid of Vena or never got back to us. Nobody contacted us to provide an alternate method of dealing with the cancer known as Vena either, but plenty of people were complaining about him. Having consulted all the large stake holders, mostly that was done by myself even though I was not a VL in Kings or Knights, a fast, precise strike war, was the option which best presented itself

Also, VoV owned 53 at the time so 'letting' it get taken by the Dark, for a short time, would have distracted one of the JAVA members from being able to get involved. Nice of you to bring it up as another of your attempts at twisting what was actually going on. It also presented a means for other more worthy guilds to take a place in the South, which has happened.

4) Clear and Present Danger & Appropriation: It was not just Judgement, but a group of allied guilds called Java. Guild hopping did not have a 3 day waiting time back then and 75 was of strategic importance to both CKings and Radiant. Any number of active members could be moved from one guild to another to hit one side or another as was needed. Moving the 'war' from 4 fronts to 2 fronts was a completely obvious move and very necessary to keep things short and not hand the Dark anything more than we had to. The danger was not necessarily to CK, but to the front line. If the 'war' took to long, then the light side would loose, as we have seen with all the conflicts that Prism has brought us. Once the 'Head' was chopped of, things got better and the light side was again winning against the dark...

...until somebody started using #92 as their justification and battle cry for everything they wanted to do. Somebody that spent mind boggling amounts of CP taking and then relinquishing possession of various different regions across the entire light side. Somebody that used #92 as a rallying cry to point everybody on the light side at CK while she went on a spree of bloody conquests against peaceful guilds.

5) Violating the Agreement: Once one party to an agreement violates that Agreement, it no longer exists just like any contract. When you sign a rental contract you agree to pay $XXX for X# of months and the owners of the rental agree to let you stay in their building.
IF you don't pay $XXX then you violated the agreement/contract. No rational person would expect the owners of the building to not kick the renter out so they can rent that space to another person and make $XXX.

No rational person should expect Judgement not to get kicked in the teeth for breaking the agreement. Since there is only 1 way to kick out another guilds teeth (since assassination isn't an option) that option was used.

'Our' CHOICE was VALID.

PS: Than0s was not the leader of Crimson Kings or CK or anything until well after control of 75 was solidified. I think it was like a week or 2 later. The #92 incident was well before my time as a leader, but I kept abreast by being in Kong chats. There were a lot of things that I inherited, but none of which justify any third party spending a multitude of hours bitching about it.

PSS: Regardless of any negative perception that the Joseph Goebbels might have in concerns to the causes he found himself willingly or forced to champion, he was a master of propaganda. I in no way implied that Joyce is a member or adhere to the National Socialist German Workers’ Party or its ideals.

I could see people being upset if I was comparing anybody to Heinrich Himmler.

PSSS: Joyce your link to Joseph Goebbels is 'broken'.